Once a week is still too often, try to extend it to once every 2 weeks. Note the last time you took finasteride, and wait 14 days and report back, I think it'll definitely make a difference.
Have you checked your DHT level? Have you consider taking SAM-e?
I haven’t, as I have been out of the country for the past two months. Now that I am home, I plan on it.
I’ll certainly give it a shot. Definitely haven’t felt anything negative at one week doses, but I will extend out.
Have you thougth about trying Avodart instead of Fin?. I mean if you are trying to stay in a certain range, the avodart dosing may be easier with the longer half life. I did over shoot one time and was suppressed for almost two weeks but typically it's a couple days after the dose.
Update: As I posted early, I checked DHT level 5 days after a dose of Avodart and the level was 77. This is suprisingly higher than expected. So I took Avodart 2 drops on Monday couple days early. For the next couple days felt okay, but libido lower and definetly not as good as it has been. I have had significant morning wood for past several days but I am worried about the signficant drop off of libido ( I have been following this on a calander and my rating system is 1/3 with 3/3 normal). Mentally I feel good. It is kind of depressing that I haven't been able to maintain in the sweet spot though. I suspect I suppressed myself too much. I check DHT level again yesterday as this is becoming a little confusing. I always feel compelled to slowly increase dose and decrease frequency, because I have felt better after dosing but I think I end up doing too much. I may no just stop for a while and see the results. Also, I notice my sex globulin binding hormone is high. It always is high. Even before PFS it was high, but the total T was so high that fTest was normal. I wonder how much of this is playing a role. But if you dose Testosterone, that should decrease SBGH but that never made me feel better, only nothing, or worse. I think it would be great if there was something that could effectively decrease this to free up Testosterone.
I think Progestins decrease SBGH so who knows, maybe I should actually increase dose and frequency of Avodart???? Probably not...
I think Progestins decrease SBGH so who knows, maybe I should actually increase dose and frequency of Avodart???? Probably not...
Magnesium lowers SBGH.
- Messages
- 5,415
I think the reason why you had high SBGH before all these drugs, since you have Gilbert's
why are you changing your frequency, of course you would feel depressed.
If I were you , I would try to lower the dosage more and more. or spread it out between dosages and try to come off.
But you are doing the opposite, first it was 1 drop, then 2 , now 4. soon it will be full dosage.
I guess progesterone receptor is getting adjusted and probably G6PD is making more NADPH also thus your DHT is creeping up on the same dosage.
you just not worry about suppression of libido after dosing.
what you should worry about it libido getting suppressed faster and faster, after dosing stuff. That would not be good.
The idea here was to slowly come off
What you need to be looking at is increases in times before libido drops. meaning, lets say you take avodart one every 10 days.
and everything is good. then you should notice may be you can last 12 days, with everything good. or 14 , or 16 like that.
and slowly increase more and more.
if this period is decreasing in you. THAT IS NOT GOOD
But you should not worry about suppression in the moment.
Bottom line, have a dosage now, and try to go further with it, like increase periods when you take nothing. more more more more not the opposite because if you go another route, you will end up on full dose avodart.
and yes magnesium lowers SHBG
Last edited:
- Messages
- 5,415
Joe. Boron can't not decrease SHBG , since boron lowers 2 enzymes. one CYP24A1 remember the one , which breaks down active vitamin D into inactive.
and also boron decreases hydroxylase which breaks down estrogen, and thus it raises estrogen and SHBG goes up.
Thus running boron solo in most cases will INCREASE SHBG since it will increase your calcium and estrogen.
This is why when you take magnesium , in a situation with either strong cortisol or HIGH cortisol which stops calcium intestinal absorption.
Body in those cases asks for boron and it always goes down on hairtest when you take magnesium., to kill vitamin D destruction and to kill estrogen destruction. So you can get some calcium. but this calcium comes from the bone.
Thus in high cortisol states, when you take magnesium , you get screwed with calcium since you lose it from the bone.
High cortisol or too strong cortisol, stops calcium intestional absorbtion, by killing potassium.
and if people in that condition take magnesium. they get huge calcium losses from teeth and bone. Since magnesium asks for more calcium , but calcium is not there. since cortisol is stopping the absorption of calcium from the intestine.
This is why I had a friend with bone cancer, who had huge problems with calcium absorption and utilization.
And he had a huge hole in his bone due to cancer. He tried all of this stuff , K2 , magnesium calcium. boron etc. and all of that stuff was making him worse.
but the minute I gave him potassium, the bone filled in right away. Since potassium allowed calcium to get absorbed from the intestine. his high cortisol was lowering potassium, and thus not allowing calcium to get absorbed. and if you increased magnesium then boom , you lower ventilation and PH goes down, this allows calcium into blood. Body increases boron, which increases estradiol which increases active vitamin D
This is why if people take potassium. boron goes up on the hairtest, since it is needed less. Boron is the thing that stops D1.25 break down, and stop estrogen breakdown. and therefore increasing both levels of estro and active vitamin D.
So for people who want more estro , boron is cool, and as I mentioned, some folks could get cured with estrogen.
I am not saying the case with high cortisol is your case of Jack17 case. in Jack17 case it is not. since he is a slow oxidizer probably with low cortisol levels.
This is just to show the regulations of boron, and what it does.
Here is the explanations of what i was saying so you can read it. Nothing Boring About Boron
and here is the experiments of real people
SHBG INCREASING With Increased Total Testosterone Levels-Veganism? Boron?
Results of my own Boron // SHBG Experiment
Of course I could assume, may be a snap back when you end taking boron is different. I don't know that.
it would be nice if you tested yourself finally with the hairtest and blood to see what case you are.
PFS is not the same for everyone so advising some people what works for you sometimes can cause major problems for the others as we clearly saw this on propecia forum. Good example soy, one case- out of PFS, another case in PFS.
Last edited:
- Messages
- 5,415
I know I saw that study, and this is the study which people were discussing in the links which I provided to you, that in real life all of them were getting a totally opposite response.
May be it depends on body chemistry, or may be the snap back.
From what I studied about boron, I saw that it inhibits CYP24 and estradiol breaking enzyme, which was confusing me on how it was lowering SHBG. and then I saw people trial it, and saw rises in SHBG , which kind of made sense to me.
So Just mentioning this to you.
Update: ( I realize the initial goal was to dose and slowly expand frequency. I have been adjusting dosing to try to feel 100% normal and have not achieved that. Also experimenting with trying to find if there is a sweet spot. So hopefully this experimenting will help others) Last Monday (a week ago) I took Avodart 2 drops and by Thursday I was feeling either suppressed like I was taking too much or bad bc DHT was getting too high. It's hard to tell the difference. So last Saturday I took another 2 drops of Avodart. I thought if I get worse then I am definitely suppressing myself and if I feel better then DHT was getting too high. I got labs done (last Friday and just got the results. Interestingly the previous time I had labs done my DHT was 77, 5 days after dose of 2.5 drops. This was unexpectedly higher than anticipated. Last Friday it was 66 four days after a dose. And I started feeling better after the dose of Saturday. The balance of last Fridays results are: Test 1117 (900 previous). (much higher than expected) Free Test 6.6 ( lower than expected) SBHG 122.7 Much higher than expected. So as Testosterone is going up SBHG is going up too much. This is a problem. I wonder if the spike in Testosterone is causing this and maybe if taking a lower dose more frequently may help. Also starting Magnesium.
Trump_1776
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 403
Can you imagine of they could make a drug that reduced SHBG.
An e2 reading would be premium.
At the very least, seeing these hormone fluctuations may in fact help us better understand what's going on.
Best of luck to you.
Estradiol around 20-25.
Ostarine has been shown to lower shbg and anavar
Trump_1776
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 403
I don't have the info available but I do recall reading how that was the result of something else
Trump_1776
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 403
Any recommendations on a multivitamin that also has iodine?
- Messages
- 5,415
@Jack17 @joekool @Trump_1776
Guys, if you look at Melcangi study and Wuf's blood tests and CSF values. You will clearly see, that DHT is zero in CSF. It is very low and testosterone is high in CSF
Testosterone is not being converted into DHT in the brain. It is very clear. And since testosterone is already high there body wants to bind stuff with SHBG
You can see it here, that SHBG controls the entrace of testosterone into CSF The effects of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) on testosterone transport into the cerebrospinal fluid. - PubMed - NCBI
So this tells you that 5AR is not working in the brain. Possible since the body does not want to convert testosterone into DHT.
Now if you look further into that study. and Wuf's tests. You will see that progesterone and pregnenolone are also super low in CSF.
Why? The only way how they could be low is if they are bound by CBG( transcortin ) in blood. and transcortin binds cortisol also mainly
Now follow me. if progesterone is low in CSF , then how would testosterone convert into DHT in the brain. 5AR reductase will be prohibited, since 5AR will convert progesterone further down into its metabolites, but it is already low.
This is your fork.
And I think this might have happened, since androgen deprivation caused GR overexpression, and AR overexpression.
And then when you quit the drug, both CBG( transortin ) and SHBG go up . trying not to let DHT and Cortisol into the brain. and by doing this. They bind other hormones also, like estro and progesterone.
And binding of progesterone stops even remote possibility of downregulation of AR since 5AR will never go up.
Guys, if you look at Melcangi study and Wuf's blood tests and CSF values. You will clearly see, that DHT is zero in CSF. It is very low and testosterone is high in CSF
Testosterone is not being converted into DHT in the brain. It is very clear. And since testosterone is already high there body wants to bind stuff with SHBG
You can see it here, that SHBG controls the entrace of testosterone into CSF The effects of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) on testosterone transport into the cerebrospinal fluid. - PubMed - NCBI
So this tells you that 5AR is not working in the brain. Possible since the body does not want to convert testosterone into DHT.
Now if you look further into that study. and Wuf's tests. You will see that progesterone and pregnenolone are also super low in CSF.
Why? The only way how they could be low is if they are bound by CBG( transcortin ) in blood. and transcortin binds cortisol also mainly
Now follow me. if progesterone is low in CSF , then how would testosterone convert into DHT in the brain. 5AR reductase will be prohibited, since 5AR will convert progesterone further down into its metabolites, but it is already low.
This is your fork.
And I think this might have happened, since androgen deprivation caused GR overexpression, and AR overexpression.
And then when you quit the drug, both CBG( transortin ) and SHBG go up . trying not to let DHT and Cortisol into the brain. and by doing this. They bind other hormones also, like estro and progesterone.
And binding of progesterone stops even remote possibility of downregulation of AR since 5AR will never go up.