Jack17 PFS log

[wuf]

Anyone else currently trying this protocol out of interest?

You need to have big balls under to do this, and since most of this forum'people have shrinkage, it means not big balls...)))
Just kidding..

 

[TubZy]

@Jack17 dut also inhibits both 5AR 1 and 2 so I don't think it's only about half life. Stability could be at play too, maybe by keep both enzymes in balance rather than just nuking one over and over creates a bigger imbalance (like fin) and constant fluctuation

 

[hairsuit]

I have done this slightly irregularly since the end of February. I would take .25g of Fin every two weeks, with some gaps. I have not had the level of change that @Jack17 has had, but I have definitely had moments of feeling better. I went back on another TEI cycle last month and wiped out the gains. I wonder, if it was fin that put me in this mess, if Dut could work to get me out? But also, to what Jack said, I suspect that I am low DHT based on some genetic testing I did..... (I know, I need to get bloods done again). Question is, what is the reverse of this protocol? Low DHt, what gets us back? And, we are low DHt, why did we start losing hair in the first place? My libido used to be ripping when I was on Finasteride. Well done @Jack17 .

 

[TubZy]

I have done this slightly irregularly since the end of February. I would take .25g of Fin every two weeks, with some gaps. I have not had the level of change that @Jack17 has had, but I have definitely had moments of feeling better. I went back on another TEI cycle last month and wiped out the gains. I wonder, if it was fin that put me in this mess, if Dut could work to get me out? But also, to what Jack said, I suspect that I am low DHT based on some genetic testing I did..... (I know, I need to get bloods done again). Question is, what is the reverse of this protocol? Low DHt, what gets us back? And, we are low DHt, why did we start losing hair in the first place? My libido used to be ripping when I was on Finasteride. Well done @Jack17 .

if you have lower DHT, you probably would just need an even lower dose and/or bigger space in between doses to lessen DHT suppression.

 

[hairsuit]

if you have lower DHT, you probably would just need an even lower dose and/or bigger space in between doses to lessen DHT suppression.

You think? To just tease the receptors/levels?

 

[Helen]

You think? To just tease the receptors/levels?

you lower cortisol with fin, it is very clear from your hairtest. your potassium dropped while on fin

you can test what @brix is taking and see it this is cortisol related.

 

[brix]

you lower cortisol with fin, it is very clear from your hairtest. your potassium dropped while on fin

you can test what @brix is taking and see it this is cortisol related.

6 keto progesterone is the chemical.

@Helen what do you think is better for high cortisol cases? Lowering cortisol or blocking cortisol?

If I am remember correctly, ru846 blocks cortisol and that is why it is beneficial for PFS, right? 6keto-prog blocks its effect so could be similar to ru.

 

[Helen]

6 keto progesterone is the chemical.

@Helen what do you think is better for high cortisol cases? Lowering cortisol or blocking cortisol?

If I am remember correctly, ru846 blocks cortisol and that is why it is beneficial for PFS, right? 6keto-prog blocks its effect so could be similar to ru.

this is what we are trying to figure for fast oxidizers,

how are you doing on 6 keto?

 

[Jack17]

I have done this slightly irregularly since the end of February. I would take .25g of Fin every two weeks, with some gaps. I have not had the level of change that @Jack17 has had, but I have definitely had moments of feeling better. I went back on another TEI cycle last month and wiped out the gains. I wonder, if it was fin that put me in this mess, if Dut could work to get me out? But also, to what Jack said, I suspect that I am low DHT based on some genetic testing I did..... (I know, I need to get bloods done again). Question is, what is the reverse of this protocol? Low DHt, what gets us back? And, we are low DHt, why did we start losing hair in the first place? My libido used to be ripping when I was on Finasteride. Well done @Jack17 .

Since you had moments of feeling better, I would consider trying avodart, maybe one drop every 2-4 weeks ( I’d check your dht level too) . It’s such a low dose. I started this with fin in January and for a day or two, I would feel good but it was fleeting. When I switched to avodart I essentially was improving almost weekly, with a couple minor set backs, dosing too much or too little. The protocol has merit. It would be get if it helped others. I’m sure I’m not the only one that would benefit.
Good luck!

 

[brix]

this is what we are trying to figure for fast oxidizers,

how are you doing on 6 keto?

Good, I think. It definitely is helping with mental clarity, strength, and lean muscle mass. Libido is up and down.

It definitely fatigues me though by end of the day and I sleep like a rock. Hair is barely shedding.

I think if it blocks cort hopefully my receptors become more sensitive so I produce less when I stop.

A member on the other forum was taking this chemical and his test/epitestosterone ratio went from 1:1 to 9:1. So not sure if this is a good or bad thing for fasts.

 

[TubZy]

Good, I think. It definitely is helping with mental clarity, strength, and lean muscle mass. Libido is up and down.

It definitely fatigues me though by end of the day and I sleep like a rock. Hair is barely shedding.

I think if it blocks cort hopefully my receptors become more sensitive so I produce less when I stop.

A member on the other forum was taking this chemical and his test/epitestosterone ratio went from 1:1 to 9:1. So not sure if this is a good or bad thing for fasts.

I tried to two doses of that stuff one dose at 10mg and one dose at 50mg. It does block cortisol but it doesn't work in the extent like RU or anavar. Meaning I feel the cortisol blocking affect (relaxed, sleepy) but brain fog and slow thinking is still there which goes away when on RU. It almost feels like it has progesterone activity because it feels very similar to when I tried progesterone. Like that retarded, slow thinking feeling kinda like when you take a Xanax and just feel like slow and retarded from the GABA.

It also made me feel less dominant and lowered libido slightly. So for me 6 keto P4 does not work and I read the logs on RP and many ppl said the same. No snapback either.

 

[brix]

@Boris yeah I get that dumb down feeling even though I feel like it lifts brain fog. Hard to describe. But my main goal was to raise T and see how that feels. I’ve been taking it with low thyroid and I feel pretty good. However, I’m not expecting any kind of snapback when I cease taking it.

 

[Oscar]

@Jack17 Can we please get an update?

 

[MCurtone]

@Jack17

Can you please share exactly what symptoms you had during PFS and exactly how you are feeling now? This could be a big break through...Many of us want to take the plunge but we are so scared to touch these substances again.

Perhaps your words can really help.

 

[TubZy]

@Jack17 if you run into issues, try taking an AI, it should fix it. This study shows it restored prostate volume when fin and an AI were taken together.
Effect of dual inhibition of 5-alpha-reductase and aromatase on spontaneously developed canine prostatic hypertrophy. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[balance seeker]

Joe. Boron can't not decrease SHBG , since boron lowers 2 enzymes. one CYP24A1 remember the one , which breaks down active vitamin D into inactive.

and also boron decreases hydroxylase which breaks down estrogen, and thus it raises estrogen and SHBG goes up.


Thus running boron solo in most cases will INCREASE SHBG since it will increase your calcium and estrogen.

This is why when you take magnesium , in a situation with either strong cortisol or HIGH cortisol which stops calcium intestinal absorption.

Body in those cases asks for boron and it always goes down on hairtest when you take magnesium., to kill vitamin D destruction and to kill estrogen destruction. So you can get some calcium. but this calcium comes from the bone.

Thus in high cortisol states, when you take magnesium , you get screwed with calcium since you lose it from the bone.


High cortisol or too strong cortisol, stops calcium intestional absorbtion, by killing potassium.


and if people in that condition take magnesium. they get huge calcium losses from teeth and bone. Since magnesium asks for more calcium , but calcium is not there. since cortisol is stopping the absorption of calcium from the intestine.


This is why I had a friend with bone cancer, who had huge problems with calcium absorption and utilization.

And he had a huge hole in his bone due to cancer. He tried all of this stuff , K2 , magnesium calcium. boron etc. and all of that stuff was making him worse.

but the minute I gave him potassium, the bone filled in right away. Since potassium allowed calcium to get absorbed from the intestine. his high cortisol was lowering potassium, and thus not allowing calcium to get absorbed. and if you increased magnesium then boom , you lower ventilation and PH goes down, this allows calcium into blood. Body increases boron, which increases estradiol which increases active vitamin D


This is why if people take potassium. boron goes up on the hairtest, since it is needed less. Boron is the thing that stops D1.25 break down, and stop estrogen breakdown. and therefore increasing both levels of estro and active vitamin D.

So for people who want more estro , boron is cool, and as I mentioned, some folks could get cured with estrogen.

I am not saying the case with high cortisol is your case of Jack17 case. in Jack17 case it is not. since he is a slow oxidizer probably with low cortisol levels.

This is just to show the regulations of boron, and what it does.




Here is the explanations of what i was saying so you can read it. Nothing Boring About Boron


and here is the experiments of real people

SHBG INCREASING With Increased Total Testosterone Levels-Veganism? Boron?

Results of my own Boron // SHBG Experiment


Of course I could assume, may be a snap back when you end taking boron is different. I don't know that.


it would be nice if you tested yourself finally with the hairtest and blood to see what case you are.

PFS is not the same for everyone so advising some people what works for you sometimes can cause major problems for the others as we clearly saw this on propecia forum. Good example soy, one case- out of PFS, another case in PFS.

Does anybbody know what type of potassium and how much , how many times per day, with food or on empty stomach did he give his friend to restore the bone hole and calcium metabolism ?

Also, what caused the high cortisol in the first place ?

 

[Veronapwg]

Are there any overseers present, for I cannot pen a response into the novel discussion?
Where have I strayed; astray?
Aiding is sought
We give thanks.

 

[cain]

Does someone know if there were any updates from Jack17 after his last post here?