RU Trials continued

[Helen]

If there is one constant problem I am seeing with many people attempting these "protocols" it is the lack of consistency and discipline. Think of yourself like a scientific experiment. You can't be screwing things up by taking a bunch of different supps at random times while also taking the primary drug (Ella, RU, whatever), or before and after. Things interact in unknown and unreliable ways.

If you guys want results that other people can actually put into use, this needs to be done more systematically. If you are going to try something like Ella/RU you need to do a proper washout before and after - take a few weeks of no supps, eating normally, etc. before jumping into it.

I organize and run studies for a living, you guys would be nightmare participants for me. You would seriously ruin my research haha.

If you all want to do this more systematically I can help by creating questionnaires to understand symptoms/lifestyle/diet/etc, and if you agree on protocols/meds to try out, we can create documents for people to follow with recommended before/after blood tests. I can make all this stuff so it can be followed easily and evaluated properly.

I guess this ultimately comes down to one thing - do you want your successes and failures to have the best chance of helping others or not? I completely understand wanting to just fix yourself in the shortest amount of time possible. So it is up to you. I don't have any PFS problems or anything, but I think patient-led research like this is the future, and I am willing to help make it happen. I think what's being done here has a ton of potential.

I can't agree more. We need to structure the trials . Since only that way we can understand what is going on and separate cases properly. for PSSD, for accutane for PFS. I think those are slightly different

 

[Snell1234]

this is posible! i did notice a gradual and steady increase in scalp tingles and hairshed so DHT was slowly coming back online.
dude i looked and the medicare trib is now only sold by doctors and if you want it from amazon its 200 bucks... wish i got me some before they pulled it from over the counter.

So is tribulus an anti progestin?

looks to be so! i thought it was a mild antiprod but apparently it can be quite potent.

Does anyone have any links to anything confirming this? This would be very interesting.

 

[tanedout]

So is tribulus an anti progestin?

looks to be so! i thought it was a mild antiprod but apparently it can be quite potent.

Does anyone have any links to anything confirming this? This would be very interesting.

As is often the case, studies on herbs are often hard to find as there is generally no money to be made, but the thoughts that trib could have anti-prog properties come from the fact it's categorised as an 'abortifacient' herb that can cause abortions;

https://www.anniesremedy.com/abortifacient-property-96.php

 

[Snell1234]

The first tablet of mediherb i took was in the evening. When i woke up the next day it felt like my body is electrically charged, my balls were hanging sooo low, i never had then hanging so low ever in my life it was scary and they were huge. I thought thats it, this will cure me then i took tablets on the 2nd day and ball hanging stopped, gyno grew and i started crying for unkown reason, emotions.

I can get mediherb tribulus if someone needs, i also became a distributor at thorne with my medical license.
Now im using world abs tribulus which is weaker and im using small dosages. Im sure it can do the same for cheaper price. But that electricity and crazy ball hanging was only from mediherb lol.

damn man i would have legit taken you up on that offer, but i literally just bought it on ebay for 53 bucks haha im gunna use this as my antiprog when i try my my next cycle i mentioned in my theory.

i took dht 20% gel on my nip for two days and 3 days on reversotrol ad i feel good today libido wise and dick got hard af with out stimulation while watching pron today.
cant tell if its from that or from my 18g inositol plus 400mg of Randro kicking in. im 2 weeks into 18g of inositol and about 1 week on 400mg of Randro.
im gunna not take the dht gel and reversotrol for a few days and evaluate.

Lol you are on about one hundred things.

 

[IHateFin]

The first tablet of mediherb i took was in the evening. When i woke up the next day it felt like my body is electrically charged, my balls were hanging sooo low, i never had then hanging so low ever in my life it was scary and they were huge. I thought thats it, this will cure me then i took tablets on the 2nd day and ball hanging stopped, gyno grew and i started crying for unkown reason, emotions.

I can get mediherb tribulus if someone needs, i also became a distributor at thorne with my medical license.
Now im using world abs tribulus which is weaker and im using small dosages. Im sure it can do the same for cheaper price. But that electricity and crazy ball hanging was only from mediherb lol.

damn man i would have legit taken you up on that offer, but i literally just bought it on ebay for 53 bucks haha im gunna use this as my antiprog when i try my my next cycle i mentioned in my theory.

i took dht 20% gel on my nip for two days and 3 days on reversotrol ad i feel good today libido wise and dick got hard af with out stimulation while watching pron today.
cant tell if its from that or from my 18g inositol plus 400mg of Randro kicking in. im 2 weeks into 18g of inositol and about 1 week on 400mg of Randro.
im gunna not take the dht gel and reversotrol for a few days and evaluate.

Lol you are on about one hundred things.

haha im not gunna take the this right now! im just gunna have it on hand for the cycle i mentioned in my theory which would be ran in 2018.
im trying to keep my cycle as clean as possible and try to focus on just Randro and Inositol.

 

[namaste]

If there is one constant problem I am seeing with many people attempting these "protocols" it is the lack of consistency and discipline. Think of yourself like a scientific experiment. You can't be screwing things up by taking a bunch of different supps at random times while also taking the primary drug (Ella, RU, whatever), or before and after. Things interact in unknown and unreliable ways.

If you guys want results that other people can actually put into use, this needs to be done more systematically. If you are going to try something like Ella/RU you need to do a proper washout before and after - take a few weeks of no supps, eating normally, etc. before jumping into it.

I organize and run studies for a living, you guys would be nightmare participants for me. You would seriously ruin my research haha.

If you all want to do this more systematically I can help by creating questionnaires to understand symptoms/lifestyle/diet/etc, and if you agree on protocols/meds to try out, we can create documents for people to follow with recommended before/after blood tests. I can make all this stuff so it can be followed easily and evaluated properly.

I guess this ultimately comes down to one thing - do you want your successes and failures to have the best chance of helping others or not? I completely understand wanting to just fix yourself in the shortest amount of time possible. So it is up to you. I don't have any PFS problems or anything, but I think patient-led research like this is the future, and I am willing to help make it happen. I think what's being done here has a ton of potential.

I can't agree more. We need to structure the trials . Since only that way we can understand what is going on and separate cases properly. for PSSD, for accutane for PFS. I think those are slightly different

You told me on RP that you thought fasting followed by methylation would be good for someone with PSSD like me. Is this still true?

 

[IHateFin]

If there is one constant problem I am seeing with many people attempting these "protocols" it is the lack of consistency and discipline. Think of yourself like a scientific experiment. You can't be screwing things up by taking a bunch of different supps at random times while also taking the primary drug (Ella, RU, whatever), or before and after. Things interact in unknown and unreliable ways.

If you guys want results that other people can actually put into use, this needs to be done more systematically. If you are going to try something like Ella/RU you need to do a proper washout before and after - take a few weeks of no supps, eating normally, etc. before jumping into it.

I organize and run studies for a living, you guys would be nightmare participants for me. You would seriously ruin my research haha.

If you all want to do this more systematically I can help by creating questionnaires to understand symptoms/lifestyle/diet/etc, and if you agree on protocols/meds to try out, we can create documents for people to follow with recommended before/after blood tests. I can make all this stuff so it can be followed easily and evaluated properly.

I guess this ultimately comes down to one thing - do you want your successes and failures to have the best chance of helping others or not? I completely understand wanting to just fix yourself in the shortest amount of time possible. So it is up to you. I don't have any PFS problems or anything, but I think patient-led research like this is the future, and I am willing to help make it happen. I think what's being done here has a ton of potential.

I can't agree more. We need to structure the trials . Since only that way we can understand what is going on and separate cases properly. for PSSD, for accutane for PFS. I think those are slightly different

You told me on RP that you thought fasting followed by methylation would be good for someone with PSSD like me. Is this still true?

I would say it will def help with cortisol sensativity and androgen sensativity.

 

[jacknap]

Guys, I've asked several times in different places cuz I'm stupid, but where do I take these tests? Blood/mineral/urine and stuff? Just talk to my GP? Can I do them outside of insurance for a fee?


I'm only 21 I'm still a dumb kid yo

hey man i just turned 24, some of us are young bucks haha but yeah you can go to a GP. i go to my local walk in clinic and just ask to test for things.
id go through insurance cuz it can cost hundreds of dollars just to test one hormone namely DHT, that one is pricey.

yeah dht was expensive. some tests are free in canada though.
weird cuz my dht was top range but my free T was almost hypogonodal. I'd imagine it's better now though cuz I actually sleep 8+ hours whereas I was on 5 hours of sleep during that test.

 

[5 alpha]

[quote="5 alpha" post_id=2079 time=1508482333 user_id=57]

broski, im thinking that the gyno i developed in my one nipple flared up due to RU486 so im a living example of this. had my dht kicked in i would be 100% cured. proof of concept right here haha

its reduced since i mentioned it to you and joe n nam so thats cool.

story behind the gyno is that it started several months before i even got tested for prog as i thought it was a small enflammed lymph node then it got MUCH bigger yet still unnoticeable from anyone other than me after my ru trials.

dam man I did not know that you had gyno issues while on RU. What where you taking several months ago when it started?

well i didnt really notice it but after my ru trials it developed a lot more. i wasnt really taking anything new when it started. in fact i didnt really even know what was going on until recently. this whole tie i thought i had a lymph node problem since it was just on my right nipple and on the side of the nip. after ru trails i noticed "hey it got bigger" then it started feeling tender and a bit larger and thats when i put two n two together. i already had it coming, but the upregulation of estrogen from ru kind of exacerbated it a bit.

thats why ru would be perfect if it wasnt an antiandrogen as everything else is forced into place only thing is DHT doesnt come back online as the opposition to estrogen at least maybe not at 50mg; however, we have yet to try 10mg doses. my theory that i posted a page ago stated if we can swith the body to oppose estrogen with dht and lower prog all at the same time then that should do it!

a strong tribulous with some dht boosters should do the trick as well theoretically of course.
[/quote]

sounds like this could be worth a try later on down the road if our RU trials fail.

I had a similar problem at one point. a really small
piece of soft tissue feeling right under my right nipple. It actually started right when I tried my first run on TRT in my early PFS days. after I got off TRT and my hormone levels leveled out it got even smaller and stayed their.

at one point an endocrinologist took a look and said that he could not feel it. of course I pushed the issue lol and he was like ok maybe but it's so small I wouldn't do anything about it.

so our experiences sound pretty similar. mine did not change with the RU though. prob cause I only ran it for three days

 

[IHateFin]

[quote="5 alpha" post_id=2299 time=1508621462 user_id=57]

[quote="5 alpha" post_id=2079 time=1508482333 user_id=57]


dam man I did not know that you had gyno issues while on RU. What where you taking several months ago when it started?

well i didnt really notice it but after my ru trials it developed a lot more. i wasnt really taking anything new when it started. in fact i didnt really even know what was going on until recently. this whole tie i thought i had a lymph node problem since it was just on my right nipple and on the side of the nip. after ru trails i noticed "hey it got bigger" then it started feeling tender and a bit larger and thats when i put two n two together. i already had it coming, but the upregulation of estrogen from ru kind of exacerbated it a bit.

thats why ru would be perfect if it wasnt an antiandrogen as everything else is forced into place only thing is DHT doesnt come back online as the opposition to estrogen at least maybe not at 50mg; however, we have yet to try 10mg doses. my theory that i posted a page ago stated if we can swith the body to oppose estrogen with dht and lower prog all at the same time then that should do it!

a strong tribulous with some dht boosters should do the trick as well theoretically of course.
[/quote]

sounds like this could be worth a try later on down the road if our RU trials fail.

I had a similar problem at one point. a really small
piece of soft tissue feeling right under my right nipple. It actually started right when I tried my first run on TRT in my early PFS days. after I got off TRT and my hormone levels leveled out it got even smaller and stayed their.

at one point an endocrinologist took a look and said that he could not feel it. of course I pushed the issue lol and he was like ok maybe but it's so small I wouldn't do anything about it.

so our experiences sound pretty similar. mine did not change with the RU though. prob cause I only ran it for three days
[/quote]

yeah we are def similar here.
I cant remember much changes in that one nip after my small 3 day cycle, but after my longer one it seemed to really get bigger. I had an endo check mine as well, but he too said he couldn't feel anything when it first popped up so I just thought it was a messed up lymph node, but after it getting bigger than decreasing substantially I know its just good ol gyno haha would much rather it be that than cancer or something.

 

[Helen]

Just wanted to outline some of the connections among all of these for PSSD, PFS, POIS, Accutane

Progestins act on progesterone, cortisol, AR, and MR receptors. I think I did not mention the MR receptor before but it is well known that progesterone blocks that receptor and causes sodium wasting. So if you take progestins, then upon stopping the drug , aldosterone will be very very sensitive.

This can raise sodium in the cell. And I know many people with POIS for instance have severe reactions to sodium, increasing their symptoms substantially.

Anything that blocks progesterone makes aldosterone receptors less sensitive. Also it looks like inositol formation is increased with aldosterone. So taking inositol can decrease aldosterone receptors. Also licorice root acts as aldosterone. and upon stopping decreases aldosterone receptors.

Estrogen raises sodium in the cell. So does aldosterone. So if sodium is high already from too sensitive aldosterone. estrogen will be left insensitive and thus DHT will be downregulated.

We need to explore this route and try combination of anti progestins with licorice, and inositols.

 

[IHateFin]

i just got my medi herb tribulous that i bought from ebay. its legit!!! gunna save this bad boy for a cycle in 2018, fam!

 

[wuf]

Could someone tell me if I start taking zinc on the first day that I decrease the clomid to 50 mg or in the second week taking 50 mg of clomid? one post says to take when you start to decrease the clomid and another says to start 2 weeks after starting the protocol, so I have that doubt now.

one post says :

"From week 2 on Clomid, you need to start taking Zinc with vitamin E. Don't take Zinc before that. Zinc needs to be taken since if not taken while you lower Clomid it won't cure you.

but also have another post saying that you should start taking zinc 2 weeks after starting the protocol, this one.

Clomiphene ED 150mg 3 days, 100mg 4 days, 50mg 2 weeks, 25mg 4 weeks; cabergoline 0.25mg E4D; 2 WEEKS AFTER START, begin taking Zinc gluconate 20-50mg + NAD 500mg + vitamin E
*can substitute Enclomiphene for clomiphene at half the dose
*can substitute dexamethasone for clomiphene as well
*key is to slowly reduce the dose of clomiphene or substitute

Do I need to know if I start taking zinc at the beginning of the second week when I decrease the dose of clomid to 50 mg or 2 weeks after the start of the protocol that would be in the second week taking the clomid 50 mg?
that is why I have this doubt.

or to answer me better, tell me if I start with zinc after 7 days of protocol or after 14 days?

I started the protocol and I'm on the third day of clomid 150 mg, so I need to confirm this

@gbolduev

Guys, could anyone confirm to Namelk how to do it?..I do not have clue about this protocol, but I guess he needs an answer as he's already jumped on the protocol.
Sorry to interfere but I can see he is asking this from 3-4 posts...LOL

@Namelk
How are you doing with the clomid protocol?

 

[Namelk]

Could someone tell me if I start taking zinc on the first day that I decrease the clomid to 50 mg or in the second week taking 50 mg of clomid? one post says to take when you start to decrease the clomid and another says to start 2 weeks after starting the protocol, so I have that doubt now.

one post says :

"From week 2 on Clomid, you need to start taking Zinc with vitamin E. Don't take Zinc before that. Zinc needs to be taken since if not taken while you lower Clomid it won't cure you.

but also have another post saying that you should start taking zinc 2 weeks after starting the protocol, this one.

Clomiphene ED 150mg 3 days, 100mg 4 days, 50mg 2 weeks, 25mg 4 weeks; cabergoline 0.25mg E4D; 2 WEEKS AFTER START, begin taking Zinc gluconate 20-50mg + NAD 500mg + vitamin E
*can substitute Enclomiphene for clomiphene at half the dose
*can substitute dexamethasone for clomiphene as well
*key is to slowly reduce the dose of clomiphene or substitute

Do I need to know if I start taking zinc at the beginning of the second week when I decrease the dose of clomid to 50 mg or 2 weeks after the start of the protocol that would be in the second week taking the clomid 50 mg?
that is why I have this doubt.

or to answer me better, tell me if I start with zinc after 7 days of protocol or after 14 days?

I started the protocol and I'm on the third day of clomid 150 mg, so I need to confirm this

@gbolduev

Guys, could anyone confirm to Namelk how to do it?..I do not have clue about this protocol, but I guess he needs an answer as he's already jumped on the protocol.
Sorry to interfere but I can see he is asking this from 3-4 posts...LOL

@Namelk
How are you doing with the clomid protocol?

I am on the eighth day of protocol, today is the second day with 50 mg clomid dose, as I had no answers on when to exactly start zinc, I chose to follow the second protocol, which says to start taking zinc+ NAD 500mg + vitamin E 2 weeks after the beginning of the protocol, which would be on the fifteenth day, beginning of the second week taking 50 mg of clomid, I am also taking half a tablet of dostinex every 4 days from the first day. I am not feeling any difference yet

 

[wuf]

Guys, could anyone confirm to Namelk how to do it?..I do not have clue about this protocol, but I guess he needs an answer as he's already jumped on the protocol.
Sorry to interfere but I can see he is asking this from 3-4 posts...LOL

@Namelk
How are you doing with the clomid protocol?

I am on the eighth day of protocol, today is the second day with 50 mg clomid dose, as I had no answers on when to exactly start zinc, I chose to follow the second protocol, which says to start taking zinc+ NAD 500mg + vitamin E 2 weeks after the beginning of the protocol, which would be on the fifteenth day, beginning of the second week taking 50 mg of clomid, I am also taking half a tablet of dostinex every 4 days from the first day. I am not feeling any difference yet
[[mention]Namelk[/men[mention]Namelk[/me[mention]Namelk[/mention]

@gbolduev
could you please confirm that?

 

[joekool]

Not sure if this was posted elsewhere... i just found it...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17162554

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Mifepristone (RU486) is an oral antiprogestational and, to a lesser extent, antiglucocorticoid agent commonly used for short-term (single-day) therapy. However, treatment of neoplasms or chronic conditions will require long-term administration. Meningioma is a benign central nervous system tumor that is often progesterone-but not estrogen-receptor positive, making long-term antiprogestational therapy a logical treatment strategy.
METHODS:
Patients with unresectable meningioma were treated with oral mifepristone 200 mg/day. This dose was selected to provide significant antiprogestational but not antiglucocorticoid activity. Patients also received oral dexamethasone 1 mg/day for the first 14 days. Serial follow-up allowed evaluation for tolerability and side effects of long-term therapy as well as observation for efficacy (tumor shrinkage or improvement in visual fields).
RESULTS:
Twenty-eight patients received daily oral mifepristone for a total of 1,626 patient-months of treatment. The median duration of therapy was 35 months (range 2-157 months). Repeated oral administration was well tolerated with mild fatigue (22 patients), hot flashes (13 patients), and gynecomastia/breast tenderness (6 patients) being the most common side effects. However, endometrial hyperplasia or polyps were documented in 3 patients and one patient developed peritoneal adenocarcinoma after 9 years of therapy. Minor responses (improved automated visual field examination or improved CT or MRI scan) were noted in 8 patients, 7 of whom were male or premenopausal female.
CONCLUSIONS:
Long-term administration of mifepristone is feasible and clinically well tolerated, with generally mild toxicity. However, endometrial hyperplasia was noted in several patients. In view of the association between long-term treatment with tamoxifen (another agent that can induce an unopposed estrogen effect) and endometrial cancer, this observation will require further investigation and screening. Minor regression of meningioma that can result in significant clinical benefit is suggested in the male and premenopausal female subgroups of patients.

 

[expendable]

Not sure if this was posted elsewhere... i just found it...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17162554

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Mifepristone (RU486) is an oral antiprogestational and, to a lesser extent, antiglucocorticoid agent commonly used for short-term (single-day) therapy. However, treatment of neoplasms or chronic conditions will require long-term administration. Meningioma is a benign central nervous system tumor that is often progesterone-but not estrogen-receptor positive, making long-term antiprogestational therapy a logical treatment strategy.
METHODS:
Patients with unresectable meningioma were treated with oral mifepristone 200 mg/day. This dose was selected to provide significant antiprogestational but not antiglucocorticoid activity. Patients also received oral dexamethasone 1 mg/day for the first 14 days. Serial follow-up allowed evaluation for tolerability and side effects of long-term therapy as well as observation for efficacy (tumor shrinkage or improvement in visual fields).
RESULTS:
Twenty-eight patients received daily oral mifepristone for a total of 1,626 patient-months of treatment. The median duration of therapy was 35 months (range 2-157 months). Repeated oral administration was well tolerated with mild fatigue (22 patients), hot flashes (13 patients), and gynecomastia/breast tenderness (6 patients) being the most common side effects. However, endometrial hyperplasia or polyps were documented in 3 patients and one patient developed peritoneal adenocarcinoma after 9 years of therapy. Minor responses (improved automated visual field examination or improved CT or MRI scan) were noted in 8 patients, 7 of whom were male or premenopausal female.
CONCLUSIONS:
Long-term administration of mifepristone is feasible and clinically well tolerated, with generally mild toxicity. However, endometrial hyperplasia was noted in several patients. In view of the association between long-term treatment with tamoxifen (another agent that can induce an unopposed estrogen effect) and endometrial cancer, this observation will require further investigation and screening. Minor regression of meningioma that can result in significant clinical benefit is suggested in the male and premenopausal female subgroups of patients.

They really took 200mg a day for that long? Wow. Is there some difference between us and "normal" people, that they're able to tolerate mifepristone for a much longer time/higher dose than us?

 

[bruschi11]

This is normally for women not men though. So obviously we have worse sides right?

 

[IHateFin]

How long do ppl normally take Randro for? Like those that got cured from it was it like 2 weeks on and 2 off or a whole month?

 

[TubZy]

How long do ppl normally take Randro for? Like those that got cured from it was it like 2 weeks on and 2 off or a whole month?

4 weeks of at least 400mg