ZINC FINGER THEORY DISCUSSION for PFS - 2 cases

bruschi11

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Zinc finger is for MS. 100%. This is how you treat MS.

But cysteine is stuck as gbold said about pfs. Cysteine has to be moved. Fe2 needs to increase from hemoglobin. CDO needs to work to get to sulfur.

God help me. This is one of my worst mornings I’ve ever had .
 

bruschi11

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So this goes along with b6 toxicity. It’s all over the place Facebook groups etc. b6 elevation in blood isn’t good. It’s inactive b6. Needs zinc b2 or b12 or mag. Maybe b1 in some cases. Probably more often than not zinc b2 mag.
That all said. Many people who consider b6 what caused their health to spiral…. Have normal b6 levels in blood. They aren’t b6 toxic…. They just put too much pressure on transulfuration pathways with influx of b6.

CDO makes sense as biggest thing here. Histidine I’m sure is down in many. But could be moly. Could be mag folate NAD . Many things needed to process cysteine.

Funny thing is… what disease does b6 toxicity most resemble? MS. It’s everywhere. People get diagnosed with MS after taking b6. Or all their symptoms are that.

I am dying tonight. In so much torture. Zinc activating b6 is sooo bad right now. From taking 5mg of b6 the other day and like 12mg 9 days ago. Zinc wasn’t doing this until the fuckign b6 going in. So so stupid.

I’m seeing NRF2 is upregulated in MS…. More cysteine. Tooo much Heme oxygenase and boom you’re dealing with both hydrogen peroxide and carbon monoxide issues.

I went through this b6 toxicity and reacting to zinc like this two years ago. When everything went south. August through November or so 2021. Got Covid in midst of it. Zinc actually did save me from Covid. I’m starting to wonder if ozone which wasn’t great for me… took care of the cysteine. Cuz zinc sucked during Covid but I got even more fucked up after dumping copper. And I was capable of taking zinc.

What allowed the zinc intake? Was it the copper dump or ozone? I think it was the latter. Ozone has caused me so many issues in past. Doubt I’ll do again in my life. Maybe just breathe oxygen or try a hyperbaric chamber.

But even though I was capable of taking zinc again, I remember now. I took moly and had psycho reaction. Same with vitamin E. Something was being opened up. In transulfuration that was intense. I wouldn’t touch E or moly after those reactjons. Al though I probably needed them.

Tomorrow I am doing a biofeedback machine that looks at nutrients. We will see what it shows.
 

bruschi11

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Pretty crazy. I did this full body scan type thing. I forget the name of the program. And as gbold said with manga deficiency I haven’t been able to tolerate salt water/ chloride…..

Well both are very high. Like the only minerals high in that test.

Futhurmore, I do believe I’ve been fixing histidine since I started manganese. And my b6 has been low… well what happened recently? CRAZY reactions to b6 and now zinc activating it. And in that test b6 is high!!!

I took 12mg of b6 and then 5mg of b6. 1 week apart. And now I do this test and b6 is high! B6 was low in OATs from 5-6 weeks ago. Crazy stuff.
 

bruschi11

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I think. Based on my experience as it’s been really two years this week battling this.

Zinc finger comes first. Along with NRF2/ system xc working pushing Heme oxygenase- this allows Heme to be converted to fe2 which opens up CDO. Zinc finger allows CDO to work. But zinc finger includes manganese. Gbold doesn’t put that on page 1 here but he talks about it plenty on this site.

Now copper ghk comes after zinc finger. But do you really have to give copper? Could zinc biotin get you to citrulline and citrulline retains copper?

I know I dump copper when I take biotin. Zinc/biotin = citrulline from ornithine . B6= Glutamate to aspartate. Aspartate moves citrulline to arginine.
 

bruschi11

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Lol the next day I realize… copper has to be sufficient. So it’s cu-ghk has to go with ZF simultaneously.

Still I think the best chance of correcting this is more zinc less copper. I used chromium for copper today. It works perfectly fine.

I used a biofeedback Device yesterday that showed the sodium / chloride high. It actually showed higher estrogen compared to everything else.

Progesterone was low. Pregnenolone is low. This has to be about zinc and fe2.
 

bruschi11

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Sulfur borders chloride on the periodic table. So issues producing sulfur is gonna let chloride inflate.
 

bruschi11

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Don’t know where my log is but I think I’m gonna post here a bit. The greatest days of my adult life were while running zinc finger in 2017/2018.

I got pretty damn healthy prior, but between December 2017 and late February 2018 I was evolving into my true self. And I was running some ZF components the entire time. I’ve been tracking aminos for a year and the only time I was anywhere near well… 2 months of progress preceding it… my histidine got fixed. My Sulfur got fixed in htma (CDO worked.)

The problem was.. I started having copper issues. Now I realize b12, which was a big part of this last fall, depleted biotin. Biotin+ zinc convert ornithine to citrulline. Citrulline retains copper.

B12 I realize is integral component here in my case. Cobalt has been low in htma the last two years. I have carbon monoxide issues. I learned today that Methyl b12 uses carbon monoxide to produce acetyl CoA. Hydroxy b12 uses carbon monoxide as well and is used in carbon monoxide poisoning.

I also know that b12 + oxygen+ lithium converts NADH to NAD (which helps get us to histidine). B12 is an SOD mimetic. B12 is activating my high b6.

There is so much that b12 does. And most people don’t need it. But I do. I think I fix NAD and help out CoA a bit through b12.

2020 recovery is interesting here. I had above normal b12 in hair. High manganese. High mag. Lithium helped. Chromium was psycho important the big one really. And salt water swimming was gigantic. It’s basically opposite situation as now. Where I need b12 (instead of lithium which is high in hair) and manganese (instead of chromium). And zero salt water lol.

I could go on and on. I’m neurologically deformed as fuck right now. But this makes sense. I think having this biofeedback device I can use every two weeks to track nutrients… I think it’s gonna help me here. Cuz immmediatley I learned a ton this past week.

Nutrients change too quick to just track hair every 2-3 months. It sucks but it’s true.
 

bruschi11

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Histidine is up through b2 b12 manganese and the mag baths last week anddddd….. I go into crazy histamine issues.

Last year copper saved me from histamine. First via supplemental then via Dhea. I don’t want to use either this time. I think biotin chromium vitamin A zinc are best ways to copper for me. And this approach should’ve been used last year.

But still I don’t think I’m even onto copper yet. I think controlling cysteine is still the most important thing here. B6 came back in bloods and it’s higher Than normal. I think I went a bit b6 toxic from supplementing and that is causing cysteine issues to be worse.

Maybe molybdenum glycine I’m thinking as I continue to keep b6 active im hoping b6 will lower and the cysteine influx will calm down. Cysteine itself causes histamine issues as does b6.

Im also realizing that because NO cycle, specifically ornithine, is up and working I’m making urea. And urea needs to be converted to uric acid via FAD. Which went down. So again b2 moly.

I have to be careful with b2. I think the more I give I inflate methylation and increase cysteine simultaneously. Or it just could be histidine/histamine I’m increasing with it. I monitor my urine in terms of looking at b2. The color. The more fluorescent yellow it is when I give b2? The more I need it. And it was psycho fleuorescent last night.

Well that happens when you give magnesium and b12. These both use up b2. And that’s what I did this last week. 5 magnesium baths then bunch of b12.
 

bruschi11

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Think I’ll stop robbing this thread and make my own log. I’m learning so much. I think at end of day zinc finger is what needs to be fixed.

But sometimes it can take a lot to get there. There’s no way in most cases taking histidine cysteine zinc is going to solve this. Gbold said this himself. He backed off ZF and Cu GHk cuz he knew there was more to body chemistry being capable of producing ZF and Cu GHk.

It’s pretty funny though looking back. As we can see… I had bad mycoplasma which robs manganese. Just getting rid of the mycoplasma alone was THE biggest thing for me back then. It brought me from say 5% to 55% within a couple of months.

And just removing the myco got zinc finger working quite a bit . I won’t go on anymore. I’ll create my own log shortly. I’m not a guy that’s gonna go on a protocol and get cured quickly with my current state of health. This isn’t just pfs- I’m battling more of neurodegenerative disease the last couple years according to brain MRIs.

But at end of day… what is zinc finger being studied for? Neurodegenerative disease. ZF is an amazing thing. And I just hope I can prove it right one day.
 

bruschi11

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B5 is probably best way to cysteine. B3 the best way to histidine. Assuming b2 , zinc manganese and electrolyte sufficiency .

B5 might need to be in pantethine form. In April I was taking pantothenic acid and I was still having CYSTINe——> cysteine conversion issues. System xc was dead.

But in late 2020 when I fixed system xc (unknowingly), I was using chromium for awhile as a crutch. But eventually it was royal jelly, which contains pantothenic acid, which changed everything for me for the better.

I used pantithene yesterday and the dose is too high. I had to do it. But next time will lower the dose substantially. Honestly think b5 Only needs to be taken once a week with my case here.


I REALLY need to dump iron to control oxygen. It’s at a point where I might be in too deep. Bad shit happened this time. I can’t even explain what I’m living. So focus really needs to be on histidine. Even Dhea may make an appearance if hemoglobin drops.


FYI pantothenic converts to pantethine but some people can have problems there. So some have to go directly to pantethine. Pantethine gives cysteamine which converts CYSTINe to cysteine
 
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bruschi11

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B5 esspecially and b2 both need biotin. Early in summer I couldn’t tolerate biotin at allll.

Why? Cuz manganese was missing. Without ornithine (via manga) you can’t push ornithine to citrulline (via biotin/ zinc). Zinc has literally died on me over last few days where I can’t feel it. Have to think biotin is needed for zincs efficacy here.

But also.. talking cysteine toxicity that b5 heightened. Biotin moves cysteine via propionyl CoA. This step could not take place prior to manganese going in. Mangas so big. Allowing biotin supplementation.

I think the next step is b12.

This excites me because b12 is best oxygen user there is out of any of these nutrients. I might need to give it a few days thoZ
 

RebelWithACause

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B5 esspecially and b2 both need biotin. Early in summer I couldn’t tolerate biotin at allll.

Why? Cuz manganese was missing. Without ornithine (via manga) you can’t push ornithine to citrulline (via biotin/ zinc). Zinc has literally died on me over last few days where I can’t feel it. Have to think biotin is needed for zincs efficacy here.

But also.. talking cysteine toxicity that b5 heightened. Biotin moves cysteine via propionyl CoA. This step could not take place prior to manganese going in. Mangas so big. Allowing biotin supplementation.

I think the next step is b12.

This excites me because b12 is best oxygen user there is out of any of these nutrients. I might need to give it a few days thoZ
On foenem!
 

bruschi11

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On foenem!
So true!!

So zinc finger is histidine. Literally production of histidine can be so complex. The other day I do Oligoscan after a copper dump. Look what happens to phosphorous. Absolutely dead. I was horrible so bad. I take phosphorous and I start making histidine again it was clear as day.

I’m getting ahold of oxygen but with that comes h202 which uses up gluth. And gluth is a big part of zinc finger.

My approach to NaD is through a formula I saw recently. It really is a game changing formula.

B12 (I need bad) + lithium (I’m high on so no need) + glutathione use oxygen to convert NADH to NAD.

I think it’s extremely important to keep glutathione working and not let h202 eat it all up. Will likely begin supplementing tomorrow if I can get ahold of some.

B2 b5 b12 biotin zn mn mg are approach currently. Today is actually the first day I used all these supps. I crashed really bad last night into this morning and the approach helped a lot.
 

bruschi11

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Last year copper saved me from histamine. First via supplemental then via Dhea. I don’t want to use either this time. I think biotin chromium vitamin A zinc are best ways to copper for me. And this approach should’ve been used last year.

But still I don’t think I’m even onto copper yet. I think controlling cysteine is still the most important thing here. B6 came back in bloods and it’s higher Than normal. I think I went a bit b6 toxic from supplementing and that is causing cysteine issues to be worse.

Wrote this a couple weeks ago.
Funny thing is…. Best thing for cysteine is biotin. Moving cysteine to propionyl CoA.

And best thing for copper is… you guessed it biotin. Zinc+ biotin move ornithine to citrulline.

Citrulline gets to arginine via aspartate (active b6), magnesium AND Nrf2.

I believe you really need to have both citrulline and arginine production working to make NO. But we can’t make too much NO. Specifically in b12 deficiency.

Trust me… carbon monoxide issues (via NO in b12 def) are the worst thing I’ve ever gone through. Inability to breathe. Burning insides in the worst of ways really in my rectum extreme burning to point I want to cry for hours on end.

It happened yesterday. I used psycho amounts of b12, some b2. To calm it down.

But NO in some way or form does retain copper or gets it into serum from liver.

If I go into copper deficiency mitochondrial transport chain dies rapidly. CANNOT ever go into cu deficiency .
 

esp90

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@m_arch


Sorry, but it is not the way it works.


You go on carbs only diet for 2 months. You will have high sodium, low magnesium, low potassium, high calcium. This is the body telling you it is trying to ventilate faster. In this case it is totally useless to look at the ratios. And it is totally useless in this case to try to fix sodium magnesium ratio and especially lower adrenaline output. This is an example

If you go to Gbolduev Q and A you will see that the only thing I was talking about was ADRENALINE vs serotonin ratio. That is my oxidation types. And that is exactly the ratios of sodium magnesium, and potassium calcium balance.

Eck and Watts parted their ways, since they could not figure out potassium. this happened because they could not figure out cortisol sensitivity issue. And IMO both companys programs are wrong now because of this issue and their take on hairtests is wrong also.





And that is exactly why by giving you minerals the ratios on hairtests on their programs just go back and forth and nothing is really getting balanced.

I have been on the program myself. plus I have tons of people who are on the program for more than 6 years. trust me, they are not fixed. Got much older looking with congested livers and hairloss and grey hair.


Look at Larry Wilson. who is on the program for 30 years. Just look at his picture. this is what you will get by balancing or fighting wrongly what the body is doing.


Look at how you look after 30 years of the mineral balancing approach. It is ridiculous really. And hair is gone.

https://hackstasis.com/forums/-/list

@m_arch I like that you are trying to get it figured out from the hairtests etc. but trust me I know hairtests in and out, and all ARL and TE programs and approaches and tested all this for years. Be careful with this. The main problem is potassium regulation mistake in those programs. after that mistake everything just falls apart. Thus after years of seeing people on these programs and I am a practitioner to both ARL and TE, I don't rec people to be on those programs. I only would understand being on any program like that, if it really could balance your ratios. I HAVE NEVER SEEN BALANCED HAIRTEST On those programs. If you showed me a hairtest that would have perfect ratios and values on it, I would admit that it is good approach

As I mentioned before that I would rec ARL and TE for a very short time in critical cases, just for a chance to adjust the PH.

I am an adapt in overmineralization theory of aging. This is why I rec fasting. amino acids. etc. Not taking multivitamins. and hairtests are just for the purpose to see your oxidation rate so you can eat accordingly.

Oxidation rate is adrenaline to serotonin ratio. Which is sodium magnesium AND calcium potassium ratio.. Traceelements have it wrong with this phosphorus to calcium oxidation type. Which I dont even look at . it shows compensation of the acid base primary imbalance. I agree here more with ARL type oxidation measurement., they dont look at calcium phosphorus ratio. they look at sodium to magnesium, plus calcium to potassium, and that makes your oxidation rate which is correct. I have no idea why people look at Traceelements oxidations types. They are simply wrong.

March if you want to get closer to understanding this, test hairtests and ABGS and VBGs at the same time. After that you will understand that fixing ratios on hairtests is useless. And that minerals are not the structure of the enzymes controling all of this. the mutations are mostly in amino acids parts of the enzymes, and not mineral deficiencies.

this is why TE and ARL programs simply don't work and make you older, since they mostly concentrate on minerals and some vitamins.( a few) They did not have proper interactions since the programs were made 40 years ago.

So one more time be careful with putting minerals into your body using their recs. It does move the one ratio in the needed direction, but it screws up other things, since that minerals that they are using to move the ratio is not needed and the mutation is in the amino acid part of the enzyme.

This is why they make up all those excuses for a not balanced hairtest. I think if the program is correct, it should balance you into perfect oxidation rate within a month. may be even 2 weeks. and then when you test hair. You should have ideal perfect 4 electrolytes at least. NEVER EVER SEEN on their programs.

People take their program for 2 years, and stay in 4 lows. Or take their program for 2 years and stay in very slow oxidation. ARL tells you that you are rebuilding , but you are getting worse and worse. your liver is just full of not needed minerals , since there are no needed aminos to even bind them

But when you take the program you feel a little better, that is since you force the enzyme using the minerals and once this mineral is constantly very high in your blood, this enzyme goes a little faster, but in 2 years it will slowly just die from congested liver

This is why animals when sick dont eat. they fast


When I started taking the program ARL kept telling me that I am really low on zinc. and that zinc zinc zinc zinc I need. both companies just bombarded me with zinc. And I had terrible anemia from it. my skin had grey color. I stayed on their balancing the ratios for almost a year. then I compared picture from before and after and if was ridiculous . Then I went and tested my urine mineral levels and rbc. my zinc levels were 5 times higher than norm in the urine. My insulin was just zero I had shortness of breath. Same I got from progesterone.

I was very confused and I quit the program right away. It was harming me obivously. I could not understand why was I losing all this zinc, and feeding zinc was making it worse and worse. It was some kind of regulation. And those companies were trying to balance my ratios. and just made it worse and worse.

Then I understood, that it was a balance between two enzymes, IDE enzyme which breaks down insulin, and insulin creating enzyme . These enzymes had zinc in it. So everytime, I would feed zinc, my insulin would crash. I was wondering what the hell was going on . Zinc for some reason was raising IDE enzyme , but did not increase production of the actual insulin. ARL and TE was trying to increase my insulin levels with zinc since that is the interaction they got.

Only when I fed copper with histidine, insulin went up. , because histidine wont go up without copper, and histidine is needed for insulin. SO by feeding copper histidine , I increased my insulin and decreased my IDE enzyme. Boom it was fixed just like that. And zinc levels and b6 levels went up on their own.

And I thought I had pyroluria LOL

It is almost impossible to run low on major electrolytes like magnesium calcium potassium sodium. This only happens if you have some amino imbalance. Since your liver is full of minerals usually. That is why you eat beef liver. Only amino acid imbalance can prevent your body from restoring the balance.
Its funny how he speaks so poorly about ARL and TEI and just 6 months later he says to everyone to go on these programs. He was very convincing in the way he talk/writes and then he can radically change his mind. It would be very interesting to see him argue that the moon is made of cheese and see how many would believe it, quite few would I would suspect.
 

Ingeno

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To be fair, he later told us that he contacted TEI/ARL to explain some of the science behind their programs he wasn't agreeing with. But after the explanation it made more sense he said and recommended the programs instead of fooling around yourself.
Its

Its funny how he speaks so poorly about ARL and TEI and just 6 months later he says to everyone to go on these programs. He was very convincing in the way he talk/writes and then he can radically change his mind. It would be very interesting to see him argue that the moon is made of cheese and see how many would believe it, quite few would I would
 

Aleksandr

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Its

Its funny how he speaks so poorly about ARL and TEI and just 6 months later he says to everyone to go on these programs. He was very convincing in the way he talk/writes and then he can radically change his mind. It would be very interesting to see him argue that the moon is made of cheese and see how many would believe it, quite few would I would suspect.
lmao yeah
after i got that venous blood draw as well (the post he was referencing) he never responded, and the test didn't help me at all

also he said this random shit in that mega post
People take their program for 2 years, and stay in 4 lows. Or take their program for 2 years and stay in very slow oxidation.

when i was doing this before, my first test in late 2017 vs early 2020 - the one in 2020 was WAY more balanced than the one in 2017 and i felt healthier.
now retesting in 2025 its not as balanced as 2020 but still much better than 2017.
also, i went from 3 lows in 2017 to pretty much the first 4 macros in the ideal range (maybe calcium slightly lower)

2017 HT:
2017-10-01.jpeg
2020 HT:
2020-02-11.png

So idk. I think he had a lot of mood swings and liked to argue random points.

I think now days chatGPT is a really good knowledge source on it, and with it we don't have to follow ARL or TEI recs directly - and we can possibly take less, safer and cheaper supplements to achieve balance too.
 

Aleksandr

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To be fair, he later told us that he contacted TEI/ARL to explain some of the science behind their programs he wasn't agreeing with. But after the explanation it made more sense he said and recommended the programs instead of fooling around yourself.
i took at look at your hair tests, interestingly the 1st one is very similar to my first one and your last one is similar to my one taken this month!
have you done any more / will you be doing more HTMAs?
 

esp90

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To be fair, he later told us that he contacted TEI/ARL to explain some of the science behind their programs he wasn't agreeing with. But after the explanation it made more sense he said and recommended the programs instead of fooling around yourself.
Why does it matter if he understand how program works or not if results 2-6 years (and longer even worse) on program is bad like he said it was?