Experimental Hair Loss Options

[Helen]

My seems to be case 2. Everything you mentioned for case two seems to improve my hair (MSM, selenium sulfide, cysteine, taurine etc.) but I understand it could he both too.

You are post FIN, you are both most likely

 

[Jamie]

@Jamie

Protein wasting happens in too fast thyroid. If thyroid is too fast. body is gettting rid of potassium and magnesium. Since potassium is what makes the thyroid hormone to work in the cell.

Free copper binds to proteins like tyrosinase, and breaks it down, this lowers thyroid hormones. If you have too much free copper that is why you have low thyroid .


That is why for some slow oxidizers, anything that binds copper, like lysine, histidine, glycine, vitamin C. Will speed up the thyroid and actually lower progesterone and allow the body to waste potassium to get rid of it from the cell.

Mixed oxidizers, that used Fin, and other drugs. and artificially altered their oxidation rate. Need to use both of these methods combined,


This is why Ray peat approach is wrong, since he looked at some people and said, oh, you need to do the opposite . If you were eating high phosphorus diet. you need to just turn around and eat high calcium diet. Well now it is imbalanced into another side.

If you were an eater of high phosphorus diet, you just need to balance that diet. and if you are an eater of high calcium diet, well you need to balance that diet out also. Not just go from one extreme to another, where you will get different symptoms.



but the whole RPF forum, just take this as extreme and eat high calcium high milk low phosphorus diet. and then they all experience problems with teeth etc , same as Ray Peat did. It is all about balance.

This is why those people take lysine, C and they say they lower serotonin/ and then they start experiencing histamine reactions and pricklings and energy crashes. LOL Lysine and C bind free copper, copper is part of MAO -A. so lysine and C will increase thyroid. which will increase cortisol . and since it will lower MAO A it will increase cortisol. THYROID increases ACTH and LH. it always did and always will. since thyroid is fire. and fire burns wood and wood is sugar, and adrenaline and cortisol provide that wood. along with diet.

So not to have stress hormones , you need to have balance oxidation rate. IN slow oxidizers slow metabolism people's cortisol is low. NOT high. since their metabolism is low and they dont need it. Those people have low serotonin. since serotonin goes up when you have low free copper and those people have high free copper.

In fast oxidizer high thyroid low free copper , you have potassium losses from the cell, high cortisol, high serotonin. . High ceruloplasmin

In slow oxidizer ,low thyroid , you have high free copper., you retain potassium in the cell, you have low potassium on the hairtest, so potassium is not leaving the cell, you have high progesterone, meaning that body want to retain more and more potassium. when you bind free copper with glycine lysine, vitamin C, histidine, zinc manganese for that person, body will be getting rid of potassium from the cell, and it will lower progesterone


Also, the higher your thyroid is , the more ferritin will be. So for those with low ferritin, you will do good on lysine and C. Since it will bind free copper, and increases speed of the thyroid. And this will increase your ferritin since ferritin will be needed in the cell since body will be wanting to use iron to convert progesterone into cortisol

But no matter what you take , you will go into the opposite body chemsitry within a month, and instead of one type of hairloss, you get another, or from diabetes 1 you can go into diabetes 2.

that is why minerals vitamins , should be used short term. or should be used in balanced rations.

for both oxidation rates. and let the body take what it needs. SO you need always to feed something for a month , stop it and eat balanced, or feed another side together with the stuff that you were taking


AND HORMONES SHOULD NEVER BE USED> since it unbalances your mineral ratios, you are taking the hormone that dont not belong there.


This is why @Jamie when you feed copper, you slow down the thyroid. And now body is asking for potassium in the cell. you were losing this potassium and magnesium, to keep potassium low in the cell, since your thyroid was too fast.

great explanation, thanks that is all far more clear now

 

[TubZy]

You are post FIN, you are both most likely

Is that why MPB people have higher incidence of cardiovascular issues due to lack of connective tissue throughout the entire body?

 

[Helen]

Is that why MPB people have higher incidence of cardiovascular issues due to lack of connective tissue throughout the entire body?

yes, this is why people get aneurisms in copper deficiency and get calcification from too much free copper and over oxidation of lysine and vitamin C

this is why Linus Pauling I think used , GHK with vitamin C for heart problems. some use also lysine with vitamin C, but that is for a slow oxidizer. and shortly will cause histamine to rise and that will cause protein waisting hairloss.

It is a balance, only in balance you have complete peptide GHK CU in blood. This peptide is what makes you young

You see hair needs connective tissue to hold the bulb in, and also needs biotin. transport of biotin is controlled by CDO enzyme. Which is iron , histidine cysteine. and to get to cysteine,you need zinc magnesium b6 serine.

Histidine is the limiting amino there, since histidine increases the stomach acid and then you have all other aminos in , all sulfur amino, the iron. Etc.

This is why in some people biotin helps the hair. but in some it does not help at all. Does nothing

Connective tissue is lysyl oxidase, which is copper histidine, lysine, vitamin C.

So to have perfect connective tissue to hold the bulb in and perfect sulfur amino acids to get to biotin. you need all of this balanced

 

[JonnyCraig]

In light of what gbolduev said above..

Perhaps we should be careful dosing L-Histidine w/ L-Glutamine?


L-glutamine prevents the L-histidine-mediated enhancement of hydrogen peroxide-induced cytotoxicity.
Sestili P1, Giacomoni PU, Cattabeni F, Cantoni O.

Author information


Abstract
Results presented in this study demonstrate that L-glutamine, a competitive inhibitor of L-histidine uptake, inhibits in a concentration-dependent fashion the L-histidine-mediated enhancement of H2O2-induced cytotoxicity. L-Glutamine also prevents the induction of DNA double strand breaks (DSB) but does not affect the enhancing effect of L-histidine on DNA single strand break induction by H2O2. Taken together, these data demonstrate that L-histidine, in order to allow the formation of DNA double strand breakage and increase the toxicity elicited by the oxidant, has to enter the cell. In addition, these results indicate that the enhancement of DNA single strand breakage is a consequence of the action of the amino acid at the extracellular level and/or outer surface of the plasma membrane and does not appear related to the mechanism whereby L-histidine increases the cytotoxic response to H2O2. The latter mechanism very likely involves the formation of DNA DSB.

L-glutamine prevents the L-histidine-mediated enhancement of hydrogen peroxide-induced cytotoxicity. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Canari]

Protein wasting is rather in a case of a fast metabolism.

Curious, I am slow 1!
But I looked at the hair coming out, and it looks like having a big root, and I think it is greasy.

@gbolduev what is a mixed oxidizer? What is the correspondance with TEI ot ARL readings?

In slow oxidizers slow metabolism people's cortisol is low.

Is it possible that some slows have high cortisol, but unsensitive?

In slow oxidizer ,low thyroid , you have high free copper., you retain potassium in the cell, you have low potassium on the hairtest, so potassium is not leaving the cell, you have high progesterone,

...and they tell you to take progesterone...

is "High free copper" when t is visible in the hair test? i often read that slows have high copper, but mine is low in hair test! (but higher ratio copper to zinc in blood)

 

[Aleksandr]

2 cases of hairloss, are


1) connective tissue wasting, in this case your hair bulb just falls out.( hair bulb just does not hold inside of your skin) since connective tissue is weak.
2)Then it could be protein wasting, that is when your hair just thins out to zero( these cases are helped with methionines, sulfurs, cysteines)



Connective tissue help should come from lysyl oxidase. so lysine, histidine, copper, glycine, and vitamin C. And you can be high or low in any of those causing a deficiency of another.

Plus it could be both of course when you are low on both connective tissue and sulfur amino acids. . this involves histidine deficiency, since then none of the protein goes in. and you get both connective tissue problem and thinning( protein wasting) . MIXED oxidizer types.

check out the GHK thread, we are discussing it there. also

So for mixed oxidiser what helps? Supping histidine hcl?

 

[Aleksandr]

yes, this is why people get aneurisms in copper deficiency and get calcification from too much free copper and over oxidation of lysine and vitamin C

this is why Linus Pauling I think used , GHK with vitamin C for heart problems. some use also lysine with vitamin C, but that is for a slow oxidizer. and shortly will cause histamine to rise and that will cause protein waisting hairloss.

It is a balance, only in balance you have complete peptide GHK CU in blood. This peptide is what makes you young

You see hair needs connective tissue to hold the bulb in, and also needs biotin. transport of biotin is controlled by CDO enzyme. Which is iron , histidine cysteine. and to get to cysteine,you need zinc magnesium b6 serine.

Histidine is the limiting amino there, since histidine increases the stomach acid and then you have all other aminos in , all sulfur amino, the iron. Etc.

This is why in some people biotin helps the hair. but in some it does not help at all. Does nothing

Connective tissue is lysyl oxidase, which is copper histidine, lysine, vitamin C.

So to have perfect connective tissue to hold the bulb in and perfect sulfur amino acids to get to biotin. you need all of this balanced

It sounds like thr solution for most is to supp histidine hcl and eat a diet that hits all the rdi for nutrients?

Great posts btw

 

[Helen]

histidine should never be taken alone. IMO. it is more we have to concentrate on GHK complex with copper. I am trying this one now. I will test what it does, how taking those aminos effect the blood.

 

[jacknap]

what about using collagen for hair? bulletproof brand is the one I use I put it in coffee..

seems like a good source of hard to find aminos and seems to be working well. My hairs growing so fast and thick. But I'm still sides from RU58841 so could just be because of that.

 

[Canari]

So for mixed oxidiser what helps? Supping histidine hcl?

Who tells me what is a mixed oxidizer? Is there anything like this in ARL or TEI results? There is nothing like it in the charts we posted in the forum....

 

[Aleksandr]

Who tells me what is a mixed oxidizer? Is there anything like this in ARL or TEI results? There is nothing like it in the charts we posted in the forum....

Arl uses it. Its when the thyroid ratio and adrenal ratio are different i think. (One fast one slow for example). Tei doesn't use it

Its supposed to be a temporary state

 

[Blue88]

what is your story? what is up with you boron?

Zinc and manganese are only for slow oxidizers. Slow oxidizer is high calcium high magnesium , low sodium low potassium.

Low ratios has to be. CA/K and NA/Mg



I need to see your blood calcium level. If high. You need to check your parathyroid gland. it looks like it is superactive
This can cause your hairloss by calcifying everything around.

You should def not take mangnese, since manganese increases prolactin which increases calcium.

Lets see prolactin, and lets see PTH in blood, plus calcium in blood

If calcium in blood high and pth high. may be you are taking vitamin D ?


I am not sure where this calcium is coming from since to me you look like fast oxidizer.

Hi @gbolduev

An update from me.

If you remember, my hair test from early October had extremely high calcium and low boron, pointing to a parathyroid issue. At the time, I was taken a lot of supplements. All other minerals looked fairly good. The report suggested I was a slow oxidiser, but you seemed to think that results (other than calcium) pointed to me being a fast oxidiser.

I stopped all supplements at the end of November and had blood tests for prolactin, calcium and parathyroid on 5th January, as you mentioned. My results are as follow:

Calcium - 2.49 mmol/L (range: 2.20 - 2.60)
Prolactin - 135 mIU/L (range: 86 - 324)
Intact-(whole molecule) PTH - 5.0 pmol/L (range: 1.6 - 6.9)

Over the past week, my shedding seems to have slowed. My diet now mainly consists of seafood (shellfish, sardines), eggs, spinach, sweet potato, salt and almond butter.

I'm going to do another hair test (includes aminos), but how do the above results look to you? Any recommendations?

Perhaps coming off the supplements has helped.

 

[Blue88]

Hi @gbolduev

An update from me.

If you remember, my hair test from early October had extremely high calcium and low boron, pointing to a parathyroid issue. At the time, I was taken a lot of supplements. All other minerals looked fairly good. The report suggested I was a slow oxidiser, but you seemed to think that results (other than calcium) pointed to me being a fast oxidiser.

I stopped all supplements at the end of November and had blood tests for prolactin, calcium and parathyroid on 5th January, as you mentioned. My results are as follow:

Calcium - 2.49 mmol/L (range: 2.20 - 2.60)
Prolactin - 135 mIU/L (range: 86 - 324)
Intact-(whole molecule) PTH - 5.0 pmol/L (range: 1.6 - 6.9)

Over the past week, my shedding seems to have slowed. My diet now mainly consists of seafood (shellfish, sardines), eggs, spinach, sweet potato, salt and almond butter.

I'm going to do another hair test (includes aminos), but how do the above results look to you? Any recommendations?

Perhaps coming off the supplements has helped.

Hi @gbolduev - I'd be ever so grateful if you have a moment to respond to the above. Thanks in advance.

 

[TubZy]

I just posted a potential protocol for hair loss (GHK). Lets get some people doing this. Check out this thread, my last post has a starter rough protocol to try out. We need to see if this works.

GHK-Cu: Hairloss, PFS, COPD, Fibromalgia Discussion

 

[hairloser]

Maybe someone wants to try this protocol -

https://imgur.com/a/XL74b

?



I'm joking of course, but still quite interesting and perhaps somebody hasn't seen it yet.

 

[Aleksandr]

Maybe someone wants to try this protocol -

https://imgur.com/a/XL74b

?



I'm joking of course, but still quite interesting and perhaps somebody hasn't seen it yet.

i hadn't seen it yet. wow, what a massive change.

 

[Aleksandr]

I've had a bit of scalp itch lately, the first scalp itch in about 6 months since i 'decalcified' my scalp with scalp massages.


I'm wondering if this is from a lack of zinc! I've been on the carnosine, which is supposed to use up zinc. My tablets are 500mg. The thing is, theres also a product called "Zinc Carnosine", is how its often sold. At the ratio that is, i.e. this one:

Zinc Carnosine

its 8.3mg zinc to 29.2mg carnosine per capsule

My carnosine is 500mg a pill. So..

500%30 is roughly a 16.6 multplier... so i should be having 137mg of zinc a day with it. Right now i'm only taking 30mg!! I'll need to pop 4 zinc pills to the 1 carnosine pill to get roughly a similarity. Maybe i'll pop 5 for a few days with it to get rid of the itch!

This could be the reason. Zinc could be a super important mineral for hair guys.

 

[Jamie]

i hadn't seen it yet. wow, what a massive change.

Yeah but now pehaps his body is enormously screwed

 

[Aleksandr]

Yeah but now pehaps his body is enormously screwed

Yeah lol. Well, if he wants to be a chick maybe he doesn't care if his dick doesn't work