PFS since march 2016 - My hair results and plan moving forward

[wuf]

I am trialing R-andro: tapered up to 200 and now going back down over, will be 10 days or so for the cycle. Similar to the resvertrol I don’t feel much different. But few things:

-increase pump / tone to my muscles (very minimal tho , I hate this pfs symptom)
-road rage / getting pissed off easily , this is not normal for me.
-better mentally , feel like I have an interest to go out and exercise or do something (again not too huge, minor increase)
-minor sharp head pain after a dose
-low libido , weak to no orgasm, slightly weaker erection (but still no problem achieving one)

Again effects were minimal overall (however I still have a few days left)

Definitely don’t feel worse overall , which is what some notice and then feel better off of it , so disappointed about that , since maybe I won’t get a snap back. But at least it’s something that makes me feel a small bit better while on it.

This is like the opposite of TEI for me. On TEI I feel like shit !!! Then after I get off I feel a bit better. However that effect isn’t huge either. I think I feel better on R-Andro than on the TEI snap backs but hard to say really

will your cycle be for 10 days?

 

[Admiral]

You tried TEI for how long exactly? Seems like it was only four days reading through your log..

 

[HerrFisch]

I trialed Resvertrol for a week since my hair test is high copper. Tapered up to 100mg and then back down off. I felt minimal effects but they were:

-most significant was my libido was intense.
-felt like I was in withdrawal in between doses. I was anxious and needed to take the next dose to calm my body down.
-maybe felt a bit better energy

Effects were minimal overall

Would you consider another resveratrol cycle? Maybe for like 4 weeks or more? I would give it another go. It looks so fitting as you got high cu and mn. Which Res both lowers.
I think 100mg is a bit more on the low side. Lots of people are taking 500mg and up even without knowing their cu levels.
I took 125mg at first as well but increased to 500mg. I noticed increase in libido too.


I think Resveratrol does increase your bioavailable copper to some degree while chelating. So its possible that the copper stimulated your adrenals and stimulated some more dumping. Maybe that made you anxious. But on the other hand Res is a strong cu mugger.
Thats at least what Im thinking as my NA increased on my hairtest with using Res. But I can only guess.

 

[Aflac94]

*significant improvement last night



Started andro Tuesday feb 21st 25mg, 50mg, 75mg, 100mg, X (accidental missed day),150mg, 200mg, 150mg, 100mg, 50mg, 25mg.



Feb 26th night tired after 8 to 5 workday, fell asleep at 12pm woke up at 5am. Best night of sleep since crash. Woke up with morning wood due to having to pee (first since crash), decent muscle pump (best since crash), decent energy, no shity feeling (best since crash).

Notice a slight improvement in skin sensitivity, completely numb before, I can feel things some now.

This was a definite switch flipping on type day. Still far from my baseline but these are things I haven’t noticed in 3 years. *only time I noticed anything near this good was first time I drank hydrogen water. That still was not on this level. That also did not really stick.

Will this stick ? I don’t know. I’m just thankful to have experienced it bc man it sucked being okay living my life in that zombie fucking health condition. Granted I had made my peace with it, accepted and adjusted to it. But I was ultimately not happy and not living my best life to say the least.

 

[Aflac94]

Would you consider another resveratrol cycle? Maybe for like 4 weeks or more? I would give it another go. It looks so fitting as you got high cu and mn. Which Res both lowers.
I think 100mg is a bit more on the low side. Lots of people are taking 500mg and up even without knowing their cu levels.
I took 125mg at first as well but increased to 500mg. I noticed increase in libido too.


I think Resveratrol does increase your bioavailable copper to some degree while chelating. So its possible that the copper stimulated your adrenals and stimulated some more dumping. Maybe that made you anxious. But on the other hand Res is a strong cu mugger.
Thats at least what Im thinking as my NA increased on my hairtest with using Res. But I can only guess.

I think it is interesting that I cycled resvertrol, waited a few days then went right onto the R-andro. This is kind of like the reverse of everyone else, who did R-andro then PCT (which isn’t that just estrogenic herbs CDNUTS, sort of like resvertrol). I am still planning to do PCT herb cycling since other did that after my 10 day R-Andro cycle. The shorter cycle worked with my schedule but I am not opposed to longer cycles in the future, how do we know which is better, especially since now my case proves at least switch flipping is possible on cycle and with short cycle. Although I know others experienced improvements on cycle too like Goose and Ihatefin and walker

And yeah don’t know if the Resvertrol cycle before hand had something to do with it or not

 

[Aflac94]

You tried TEI for how long exactly? Seems like it was only four days reading through your log..

I did an ARL hair test last year and followed the program for 2 months (buying my own supplements). I noticed mild snap back. I stopped for a while due to life. Then ordered TEI hair test did that program for only 1 week stopped due to life. Noticed a mild snap back. Was then back on TEI supplements for another week before having to stop again, with another mild snap back. I was on tons of zinc in both programs with my hair test showing sky high copper. SO basically I have almost completed one mineral cycle. 2.5 months of supplements overall.

I would like to get back to it soon. Want to get rid of copper

 

[Aflac94]

will your cycle be for 10 days?

YES

 

[Aflac94]

Other point is on resvertrol I was ready to sex anything, crazy libido

Now in the R-Andro , I have little to no desire. I have test looking at porn erections fine and I am interested once looking but usually when I look at porn I have to finish can’t resist it. Now I just shut the porn off. I usually don’t have that kind of control.

Disclaimer: PFS fucked up my body beyond belief (neurohormonally), however unlike a lot of ppl I never lost erections. Libido never really either , only right at start when I was in shock at what happened to me, which I don’t think counts. However organism got fucked, they range from non-existent to weak - and mostly I experience them as s body sensation and not in my brain like before. Also alcohol used to fuck me up but does nothing now. So my brain and GABA were fucked. Will be interesting to test alcohol if this sticks.

I also haven’t attempted to go to gym or lift in 3 years since I just feel like shit in there and no muscle tone, so no point. Will be interesting to test that too. I had the desire to exercise today , which was good and unusual , no time tho .

 

[MNK99]

It comes with time and a lot of mental discipline. I don't think porn did anything for me nor real girls for probably I don't know 6months +.
I didn't lift one year. AND then lifted all year.

I know it's tough, esp. when considering work / school.

I feel like I thought Randro did nothing for me in the first week or 2. I cycled it 46 days and 35 days or so and PCT equally plus 2 weeks, so that was like half a year between those 2 cycles. In the end it strongly helped libido and drive to workout (as in, it made me want to workout or rather need to workout again --- almost in a bad way).

 

[Aflac94]

It comes with time and a lot of mental discipline. I don't think porn did anything for me nor real girls for probably I don't know 6months +.
I didn't lift one year. AND then lifted all year.

I know it's tough, esp. when considering work / school.

I feel like I thought Randro did nothing for me in the first week or 2. I cycled it 46 ish and 35 days or so and PCT equally plus 2 weeks, so that was like half a year between those 2 cycles. In the end it strongly helped libido and drive to workout (as in, it made me want to workout or rather need to workout again --- almost in a bad way).

46 cycles ? How long were they

 

[Aflac94]

Yesterday did not stick Still feeling pretty good tho . Will continue to update here

 

[MNK99]

Yeah I meant 45 to 49 days in a cycle. Maybe even 56 for the first one.
Say it was 46 and 35 days (It was more definitely). With equal time plus 2 weeks extra for PCT, that's over 162 and 14 is 176 days right there.
I didn't add the extra 2 weeks for cycle 2. Instead I ran PCT for like 40 days or just about that duration.

Yeah come to think of it, now that I'm reading this aloud. I am sure I did much more than that. Considering weight gain, strength gain, and time of ending fast/refeeding.
Late Feb to early March I started working out again. And did mini cycles after the first two, up until August, getting hair test in Sept or October (all in 2018).

If it was still as beneficial and there were no competing alternatives and priorities, I'd have done another full length cycle. INstead I took it 5 days, 4 days, etc. I think I got all the gains I can from it for the most part. Personal bests on every single lift or bodyweight exercise during that time, and crazier stamina than ever in those.

Like I did 150 push ups a couple days ago with a back injury, on nothing. No inhalers either. ---on the prohormones it was like 26-28 days/30 were lift days.

WITH Randro/4andro... this would be stupidly easy, in comparison. And I'd be repaired quicker (depending on injury).
With more muscle pump sensation, and less catabolism like on TEI (I believe that's what was going on), it is HARDER. On nothing pretty hard too. ---Or just less intense and more recovery time. I.e. being more moderate.

--ALSO for literally most if not all things. The transition period from feeling like "maybe this is working, I can't tell" to the feeling of "this is definitely working", was subtle.

 

[Aflac94]

Yeah I meant 45 to 49 days in a cycle. Maybe even 56 for the first one.
Say it was 46 and 35 days (It was more definitely). With equal time plus 2 weeks extra for PCT, that's over 162 and 14 is 176 days right there.
I didn't add the extra 2 weeks for cycle 2. Instead I ran PCT for like 40 days or just about that duration.

Yeah come to think of it, now that I'm reading this aloud. I am sure I did much more than that. Considering weight gain, strength gain, and time of ending fast/refeeding.
Late Feb to early March I started working out again. And did mini cycles after the first two, up until August, getting hair test in Sept or October (all in 2018).

If it was still as beneficial and there were no competing alternatives and priorities, I'd have done another full length cycle. INstead I took it 5 days, 4 days, etc. I think I got all the gains I can from it for the most part. Personal bests on every single lift or bodyweight exercise during that time, and crazier stamina than ever in those.

Like I did 150 push ups a couple days ago with a back injury, on nothing. No inhalers either. ---on the prohormones it was like 26-28 days/30 were lift days.

WITH Randro/4andro... this would be stupidly easy, in comparison. And I'd be repaired quicker (depending on injury).
With more muscle pump sensation, and less catabolism like on TEI (I believe that's what was going on), it is HARDER. On nothing pretty hard too. ---Or just less intense and more recovery time. I.e. being more moderate.

--ALSO for literally most if not all things. The transition period from feeling like "maybe this is working, I can't tell" to the feeling of "this is definitely working", was subtle.

(Can you include doses of what you took too?)

1. So the 2 cycles , then the mini cycles (5 days , 4 days etc..?) did you PCT for equal days on the mini cycle too like 5 days R-andro, then 5 days PCT , 4 days R-andro , 4 days PCT , etc.?

2. Also what was your PCT? Sorry if you wrote it somewhere else already.

3. And which did you find more helpful mini cycles or full cycles or what differences or no difference?

4. Also when and how did you use 4-Andro , the first cycle or second or mini cycles?

5. Any negatives to the process you regret / remember ?

6. Would you ever run again , or you got all the benefit like you said ? (Your in TEI now?)

Sorry for so many questions

 

[Aflac94]

@Helen you should comment your idea on why / how, what I described above resulted in a switch flipping on

As I have hairtest and tons of blood work / hormones levels on the first page of this thread for analysis

 

[MNK99]

Hey man: For PCT, I used Kingsblood. Walker used that. Also I confirmed it with Ihatefin back then, he says it should be cool. I was very stiff, on just R-andro, needed 4-Andro due to estrogen crushing. Conversely, it messed up some others... so, I'd be careful with either but I doubt either would cause permanent setbacks.

-2. Kingsblood. Also megadosed Herbs (CD). 5-6 of them. I had them lying around.

-3. Definitely, longer moderate to high dose cycles were better, i.e. my first 2. The latter ones, I wanted to be clean for TEI. Also, Randro was bad for mood. And I couldn't just workout at some point....... and the longer cycles were after fasting.... so at like 30-40%, they surely helped more. Later like 70-80% or so... they were less useful, but I used them again to A. See if they would still work and B. See if I could get a bit stronger, or if it helped lean up a bit more.

-4. I got 4-andro a few days after R-Andro, and used them mostly together. Sometimes only 1-2caps of R-Andro on the few mini cycles, sometimes only 4-andro.
--- the latter, tho it helped facial hair and strength and mood, was far more strength increasing, when paired with R-Andro. --R-andro on other hand... useless for me without 4-andro. Mini cycles of both were like Sept to August or so... and were fine enough. -4andro did make me happy. BUT , probably there's better ways.
-R-Andro made me more evil at times. More likely to fight someone. --Both, helped attraction in terms of liking girls. SOLO? Not sure... it was better by that time but not 100%.
---as far as prohoromones and their reputation go, I was surprised by how much strength I gained but I did backload carbs, alternate day fast, cut in between cycles, etc.
--I also journalled like 100 d of diet + (they were all nearly the same and this was difficult to keep up, so I mentally did it after).

-5. R-Andro, overtraining like crazy but also 4-andro. Paired with my addictive tendencies (adhd etc and dual disorder supposedly, BPII), made me pretty agitated, angry, and bad sleep at times. --ALSO, in gaining 20lb it helped digestion at times, but slowly got better since fasting. HUGELY better with fasting but took months to catch up. ALSO, sometimes, awake 3-6 days (rare). BUT again, BPII/ADHD (insomnia implied). Plus a bad mood, plus work meant more insomnia. Lots of stress at the time for other reasons too. --- basically RAGE at times. --> pretty bad side effect.

-6. I did one cycle of TEI. I believe it helped Mood like stabilize and be good, less clouded thinking (not brain fog, but scattered, disorganized thinking disorder stuff). 9/10.
--Helped asthma 8.5-9/10. --Helped PFS 5-6/10. --- there were 2-3 symptoms left, and still are but better or worse, randomly. ALSO --- hit digestion badly, until several weeks
in. At that point I took 2/3 the dose in the early am and 1/3 before bed. So if I slept at 4am, I'd take it 3am or 5am if I couldn't sleep.
---Helped sleep quite significantly as well.
--Made me feel like that's all I need for BPII - Asthma -- any other thing like anxiety.--- And PFS eventually.
--- This was not the case with my ADHD. Perhaps just because it was tiring... or I still needed to adjust and later cycles would be better.

-6.b. I took a detour for Anavar. I guess, like my mini cycles of R-andro/4-andro. It was due to seeing what else is out there, vanity (wanting to be shredded), seeing if it
Could possibly help hair, seeing if I could speed this PFS-Recovery situation up. --working on some stuff now, and will wait till 21+d clear/ retest.
-6.c. I highly recommend against not completing TEI, if started. I'll do 2 or 3 more rounds or 4 if need be. Mostly due to bad cycles that are based on incorrect results.
--IF I find it disruptive to work and studying...... well, I'll wait till work is on solid ground and a certain test is done.
--Overall, TEI was better than all except fasting and electrolytes.. Depends, getting much stronger on randro, herbs, was good too.
--Actually removing mood disorder symptoms or seeming like it, and also asthma symptoms, and insomnia symptoms? Since day 1?? (probably rare and not
expected and I'd wager it is likely it will not be as smooth next time), it was pretty helpful.
--So hopefully 3-4 weeks should do it, in terms of keeping test results accurate/clean. --- I guess I should just accept the digestion/water retention issues.
--It's hard, considering I worked out like 15 years. However, coming off of it, can cut 5-10lb easily. So not a huge deal.
--If I do nothing, I'll be and look fit, and still be X%+ cured. HOWEVER, the remainder, and asthma, mood, insomnia etc ---- will not be cured.

 

[Aflac94]

Man I feel amazing on R-Andro compared to how I have felt for the past 3 years.

My muscles work, I feel confident again, I have energy to exercise. I can feel my skin. My eyes / face don’t look dead inside. It’s a switch turned on.

But fuck I missed a dose and started feeling hot flashes and shit again , I’m scared to come off it. I just want it to stick

 

[Aflac94]

Hey man: For PCT, I used Kingsblood. Walker used that. Also I confirmed it with Ihatefin back then, he says it should be cool. I was very stiff, on just R-andro, needed 4-Andro due to estrogen crushing. Conversely, it messed up some others... so, I'd be careful with either but I doubt either would cause permanent setbacks.

-2. Kingsblood. Also megadosed Herbs (CD). 5-6 of them. I had them lying around.

-3. Definitely, longer moderate to high dose cycles were better, i.e. my first 2. The latter ones, I wanted to be clean for TEI. Also, Randro was bad for mood. And I couldn't just workout at some point....... and the longer cycles were after fasting.... so at like 30-40%, they surely helped more. Later like 70-80% or so... they were less useful, but I used them again to A. See if they would still work and B. See if I could get a bit stronger, or if it helped lean up a bit more.

-4. I got 4-andro a few days after R-Andro, and used them mostly together. Sometimes only 1-2caps of R-Andro on the few mini cycles, sometimes only 4-andro.
--- the latter, tho it helped facial hair and strength and mood, was far more strength increasing, when paired with R-Andro. --R-andro on other hand... useless for me without 4-andro. Mini cycles of both were like Sept to August or so... and were fine enough. -4andro did make me happy. BUT , probably there's better ways.
-R-Andro made me more evil at times. More likely to fight someone. --Both, helped attraction in terms of liking girls. SOLO? Not sure... it was better by that time but not 100%.
---as far as prohoromones and their reputation go, I was surprised by how much strength I gained but I did backload carbs, alternate day fast, cut in between cycles, etc.
--I also journalled like 100 d of diet + (they were all nearly the same and this was difficult to keep up, so I mentally did it after).

-5. R-Andro, overtraining like crazy but also 4-andro. Paired with my addictive tendencies (adhd etc and dual disorder supposedly, BPII), made me pretty agitated, angry, and bad sleep at times. --ALSO, in gaining 20lb it helped digestion at times, but slowly got better since fasting. HUGELY better with fasting but took months to catch up. ALSO, sometimes, awake 3-6 days (rare). BUT again, BPII/ADHD (insomnia implied). Plus a bad mood, plus work meant more insomnia. Lots of stress at the time for other reasons too. --- basically RAGE at times. --> pretty bad side effect.

-6. I did one cycle of TEI. I believe it helped Mood like stabilize and be good, less clouded thinking (not brain fog, but scattered, disorganized thinking disorder stuff). 9/10.
--Helped asthma 8.5-9/10. --Helped PFS 5-6/10. --- there were 2-3 symptoms left, and still are but better or worse, randomly. ALSO --- hit digestion badly, until several weeks
in. At that point I took 2/3 the dose in the early am and 1/3 before bed. So if I slept at 4am, I'd take it 3am or 5am if I couldn't sleep.
---Helped sleep quite significantly as well.
--Made me feel like that's all I need for BPII - Asthma -- any other thing like anxiety.--- And PFS eventually.
--- This was not the case with my ADHD. Perhaps just because it was tiring... or I still needed to adjust and later cycles would be better.

-6.b. I took a detour for Anavar. I guess, like my mini cycles of R-andro/4-andro. It was due to seeing what else is out there, vanity (wanting to be shredded), seeing if it
Could possibly help hair, seeing if I could speed this PFS-Recovery situation up. --working on some stuff now, and will wait till 21+d clear/ retest.
-6.c. I highly recommend against not completing TEI, if started. I'll do 2 or 3 more rounds or 4 if need be. Mostly due to bad cycles that are based on incorrect results.
--IF I find it disruptive to work and studying...... well, I'll wait till work is on solid ground and a certain test is done.
--Overall, TEI was better than all except fasting and electrolytes.. Depends, getting much stronger on randro, herbs, was good too.
--Actually removing mood disorder symptoms or seeming like it, and also asthma symptoms, and insomnia symptoms? Since day 1?? (probably rare and not
expected and I'd wager it is likely it will not be as smooth next time), it was pretty helpful.
--So hopefully 3-4 weeks should do it, in terms of keeping test results accurate/clean. --- I guess I should just accept the digestion/water retention issues.
--It's hard, considering I worked out like 15 years. However, coming off of it, can cut 5-10lb easily. So not a huge deal.
--If I do nothing, I'll be and look fit, and still be X%+ cured. HOWEVER, the remainder, and asthma, mood, insomnia etc ---- will not be cured.

Thank you so much for all this info bro!

Now I don’t know if I should get 4-andro too.

Did you stop R-Andro then immediately start PCT supplements or wait some time?

 

[MNK99]

-Glad it was semi readable man.
-I think that 4-andro is best for people with low estrogen (or maybe low working estrogen. Possibly low copper as per hair tests. My ratio of Zn:Cu was pretty heavily skewed towards Zn).
-I'll do tei properly. In case, it can help remaining symptoms as well as for the other stuff.
-I can see tei making a lot of responsibilities easier, assuming subsequent cycles are at least not wrong, and are right enough.
--basically digestion issues were there.

-ALSO, in terms of stopping and starting PCT. I may have waited a tiny bit if I was out of the herbs or kingsblood, but usually I made sure to have it on hand.
--Probably best to do that and replace the prohormones with that. Maybe some taper down. they aren't like injected steroids, but I did consider doing that too.
--Also, I did use Kingsblood on it's own sometimes, and after short cycles.

 

[Aflac94]

-Glad it was semi readable man.
-I think that 4-andro is best for people with low estrogen (or maybe low working estrogen. Possibly low copper as per hair tests. My ratio of Zn:Cu was pretty heavily skewed towards Zn).
-I'll do tei properly. In case, it can help remaining symptoms as well as for the other stuff.
-I can see tei making a lot of responsibilities easier, assuming subsequent cycles are at least not wrong, and are right enough.
--basically digestion issues were there.

-ALSO, in terms of stopping and starting PCT. I may have waited a tiny bit if I was out of the herbs or kingsblood, but usually I made sure to have it on hand.
--Probably best to do that and replace the prohormones with that. Maybe some taper down. they aren't like injected steroids, but I did consider doing that too.
--Also, I did use Kingsblood on it's own sometimes, and after short cycles.

Thanks man! I will continue with a longer cycle and then do PCT with kingsblood and cdnuts herbs (I have some on hand)

I am definitely gonna do TEI regardless of what happens , just want to see where a cycle of r-andro +pct can get me. Nothing have ever made me feel somewhat normal again , so just knowing that’s a possibility helps. I always thought it was based on others recoveries and @Helen, but it’s different to experience the feeling yourself, then you are obviously convinced it’s not permanent damage

 

[Admiral]

I am definitely gonna do TEI regardless of what happens , just want to see where a cycle of r-andro +pct can get me. Nothing have ever made me feel somewhat normal again , so just knowing that’s a possibility helps.

I hear you. Contemplating starting R-Andro myself if my latest hair test still reads me a fast oxidizer.

Did you also used herb cycling beforehand? What are your hormonal levels?