RU Trials continued

[mattyb]

Sound good, simple salad with ACV/Olive dressing. Thoughts on this gbolduev thought:

"ACV increases fermentation I never take that for that reason, it has acetaldehyde"

He's correct in saying that ACV is high in acetaldehyde.

But I doubt half a teaspoon per day for a few weeks would be of any concern (Just for reference ACV has ~1g of acetaldehyde per kg, so half a teaspoon would be about 0.0025g of acetaldehyde). I think it's a problem if people consume large amounts of ACV daily, for sure.

We just want it because it donates H+ protons. That's all. No magic properties or anything. Regular vinegar would work fine too.

 

[BeLikeWater]

Why is the theory behind the very low metabolites in CNS, and more or less normal in blood? We have to understand that mechanism.

One of the victims had 3 T in CNS while the average was 0.18!

Transport of hormones across the BBB requires transport proteins like albumin, which are decreased in volume expansion alkalosis.

This is why there needs to be a correction of the alkalosis if you want recovery. This is why HCl is essential in recovery from PFS (but ironically none of the members here are using it??). Even simple things like large amounts of leafy greens (for Cl-) and apple cider vinegar (for H+) taken together can provide this. When I take both on an empty stomach I get a profound heat in my stomach about an hour later, corresponding to an immediate increase in gastric acid.

I have high Albumin in blood.

 

[Helen]

Why is the theory behind the very low metabolites in CNS, and more or less normal in blood? We have to understand that mechanism.

One of the victims had 3 T in CNS while the average was 0.18!

Transport of hormones across the BBB requires transport proteins like albumin, which are decreased in volume expansion alkalosis.

This is why there needs to be a correction of the alkalosis if you want recovery. This is why HCl is essential in recovery from PFS (but ironically none of the members here are using it??). Even simple things like large amounts of leafy greens (for Cl-) and apple cider vinegar (for H+) taken together can provide this. When I take both on an empty stomach I get a profound heat in my stomach about an hour later, corresponding to an immediate increase in gastric acid.

I have high Albumin in blood.

It seems you are deficient in zinc, try zinc with manganese. this will put your potassium back into the cell and will raise your progesterone.

 

[mattyb]

I have high Albumin in blood.

Alkalosis neutralizes albumin by increasing it's binding to calcium. Alkalosis doesn't necessarily have to decrease serum albumin, it can just lower it's transport functionality. Hypoalbumineria can be one cause of alkalosis as well. Downregulation can happen at multiple sites.

Also, I said proteins like albumin - there are other sex hormone binding proteins that help sex hormones cross the BBB. We also don't really know how pH effects intrinsic BBB permeability either. Lots of unknowns in this situation still.

One last thing - keep in mind that in wuf's test we really don't know what he's talking about when he says CNS. I am assuming those measurements he posted are from cerebrospinal fluid extractions, but I am not too sure. If not, then I don't know where the hell they are from or how reliable they are.

 

[TubZy]

Mattyb, what type of HCL dosages experimentation would you suggest, start with one and work up til burning with meals?

Pretty much. Honestly though, the greens + ACV + olive oil on an empty stomach works just as well (and you get a bonus of magnesium with it). The olive oil also gives the added bonus of stimulating gallbladder secretions and cleaning out any bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine.

So HCL on empty stomach can work as well? I think in the past Gbol thread on RPF someone had great results taking high amounts like 2-5 grams or something.

 

[mattyb]

So HCL on empty stomach can work as well? I think in the past Gbol thread on RPF someone had great results taking high amounts like 2-5 grams or something.

If you are going to take betaine HCl do NOT do it on an empty stomach. The salad is fine to do on an empty stomach, very good first thing in the morning for overall digestion. The greens provide a buffer for the acidity. HCl is different, always needs to be taken with meals (just prior to a meal), it's much more potent and has no intrinsic buffer.

Dosage of HCl is titrated to the highest amount you can tolerate without feeling any burning sensation. So you start low and experiment upwards slowly with each meal. If you feel any burning, you take a bit of sodium bicarb in water to neutralize the acid, and then you stick to a dose that's just below what caused the burning in future meals. Many people end up going to doses higher than 2g for a while and then titrate back down as things improve.

 

[wuf]

I have high Albumin in blood.

Alkalosis neutralizes albumin by increasing it's binding to calcium. Alkalosis doesn't necessarily have to decrease serum albumin, it can just lower it's transport functionality. Hypoalbumineria can be one cause of alkalosis as well. Downregulation can happen at multiple sites.

Also, I said proteins like albumin - there are other sex hormone binding proteins that help sex hormones cross the BBB. We also don't really know how pH effects intrinsic BBB permeability either. Lots of unknowns in this situation still.

One last thing - keep in mind that in wuf's test we really don't know what he's talking about when he says CNS. I am assuming those measurements he posted are from cerebrospinal fluid extractions, but I am not too sure. If not, then I don't know where the hell they are from or how reliable they are.

I confirm that it is about cerebrospinal fluid extraction.
I am sorry if I am not detailed in translation but I have learned English on the street talking with people, so I never had a real English school.. LOL
I edited my previous post.

 

[BeLikeWater]

I have high Albumin in blood.

Alkalosis neutralizes albumin by increasing it's binding to calcium. Alkalosis doesn't necessarily have to decrease serum albumin, it can just lower it's transport functionality. Hypoalbumineria can be one cause of alkalosis as well. Downregulation can happen at multiple sites.

Also, I said proteins like albumin - there are other sex hormone binding proteins that help sex hormones cross the BBB. We also don't really know how pH effects intrinsic BBB permeability either. Lots of unknowns in this situation still.

One last thing - keep in mind that in wuf's test we really don't know what he's talking about when he says CNS. I am assuming those measurements he posted are from cerebrospinal fluid extractions, but I am not too sure. If not, then I don't know where the hell they are from or how reliable they are.

I confirm that it is about cerebrospinal fluid extraction.
I am sorry if I am not detailed in translation but I have learned English on the street talking with people, so I never had a real English school.. LOL
I edited my previous post.

Man can you post all the results or tell me where I can find it? I saw Melcangi studies he is the best author regarding finasteride that I can know, Harvard was shit.

 

[mattyb]

It seems you are deficient in zinc, try zinc with manganese. this will put your potassium back into the cell and will raise your progesterone.

Huh? How would this make sense in the context of PFS being a state of volume expansion metabolic alkalosis? Volume expansion is noted by hypokalemia (low potassium in blood), which typically means higher potassium in cells. Meaning potassium is already in the cell.

In volume expansion alkalosis you want to get potassium out of the cell and back into the serum. So that's why HCl is helpful, because increasing H+ concentration and decreasing pH causes H+ to displace K+ in the cell.

There is also the case of volume expansion alkalosis due to rapid K+ loss and/or K+ deficiency, and in that case it's simply just a matter of supplementing potassium to bring up the levels in both serum and cells - but I was under the impression this wasn't the case with PFS? If this were the case, how come just supping potassium wouldn't help?

What am I missing here?

 

[wuf]

Alkalosis neutralizes albumin by increasing it's binding to calcium. Alkalosis doesn't necessarily have to decrease serum albumin, it can just lower it's transport functionality. Hypoalbumineria can be one cause of alkalosis as well. Downregulation can happen at multiple sites.

Also, I said proteins like albumin - there are other sex hormone binding proteins that help sex hormones cross the BBB. We also don't really know how pH effects intrinsic BBB permeability either. Lots of unknowns in this situation still.

One last thing - keep in mind that in wuf's test we really don't know what he's talking about when he says CNS. I am assuming those measurements he posted are from cerebrospinal fluid extractions, but I am not too sure. If not, then I don't know where the hell they are from or how reliable they are.

I confirm that it is about cerebrospinal fluid extraction.
I am sorry if I am not detailed in translation but I have learned English on the street talking with people, so I never had a real English school.. LOL
I edited my previous post.

Man can you post all the results or tell me where I can find it? I saw Melcangi studies he is the best author regarding finasteride that I can know, Harvard was shit.

You won't find results anywhere cause they are personal.
I do have mine and another guy I know.
You can read the study on Internet.
We have been tested with the psychological interview, electricity going to the penis to see the reaction of nerves and the results I posted above.. nothing else.

 

[TubZy]

So HCL on empty stomach can work as well? I think in the past Gbol thread on RPF someone had great results taking high amounts like 2-5 grams or something.

If you are going to take betaine HCl do NOT do it on an empty stomach. The salad is fine to do on an empty stomach, very good first thing in the morning for overall digestion. The greens provide a buffer for the acidity. HCl is different, always needs to be taken with meals (just prior to a meal), it's much more potent and has no intrinsic buffer.

Dosage of HCl is titrated to the highest amount you can tolerate without feeling any burning sensation. So you start low and experiment upwards slowly with each meal. If you feel any burning, you take a bit of sodium bicarb in water to neutralize the acid, and then you stick to a dose that's just below what caused the burning in future meals. Many people end up going to doses higher than 2g for a while and then titrate back down as things improve.

Makes sense, thanks

 

[Helen]

It seems you are deficient in zinc, try zinc with manganese. this will put your potassium back into the cell and will raise your progesterone.

Huh? How would this make sense in the context of PFS being a state of volume expansion metabolic alkalosis? Volume expansion is noted by hypokalemia (low potassium in blood), which typically means higher potassium in cells. Meaning potassium is already in the cell.

In volume expansion alkalosis you want to get potassium out of the cell and back into the serum. So that's why HCl is helpful, because increasing H+ concentration and decreasing pH causes H+ to displace K+ in the cell.

There is also the case of volume expansion alkalosis due to rapid K+ loss and/or K+ deficiency, and in that case it's simply just a matter of supplementing potassium to bring up the levels in both serum and cells - but I was under the impression this wasn't the case with PFS? If this were the case, how come just supping potassium wouldn't help?

What am I missing here?

there could be too cases here as I said before. If he has high potassium in the blood. and low insulin. means zinc deficiency is likely. since zinc is what will make insulin. If he had low insulin and low potassium, that is understandable.

If potassium is low in the cell, usually you have high progesterone. If potassium is high low progesterone. or you can have simply low progesterone on its own since zinc is deficient and body cant make insulin. and this stops from producing progesterone, since progesterone will require sugar in the cell, but if there is no insulin , then no sugar.

He needs more tests to see exactly what is going on. But he can try things and see.


HCL usually not used for volume alklalosis, magnesium plus potassium are used here. But the problem is aldosterone receptors are effected by a progestin and potassium will only temporarily fix the problem

 

[dante]

Gbol thread on RPF someone had great results taking high amounts like 2-5 grams or something.

Yeah ,it was tarmander ,he has type 1 diabetes ,he used betaine HCl and reported blood sugar lowering effects. In a recent post i remember him saying that he got dopaminergic effects ( like desire to learn new things etc) from it. Just be careful with possible low blood sugar if you are going to try it in gram dosages

.

If you are going to take betaine HCl do NOT do it on an empty stomach. The salad is fine to do on an empty stomach, very good first thing in the morning for overall digestion. The greens provide a buffer for the acidity. HCl is different, always needs to be taken with meals (just prior to a meal), it's much more potent and has no intrinsic buffer.

Dosage of HCl is titrated to the highest amount you can tolerate without feeling any burning sensation. So you start low and experiment upwards slowly with each meal. If you feel any burning, you take a bit of sodium bicarb in water to neutralize the acid, and then you stick to a dose that's just below what caused the burning in future meals. Many people end up going to doses higher than 2g for a while and then titrate back down as things improve.

Mattyb , there was a guy on rpf by the nick of tyw,in his clinical experience ,he said that high doses of betaine HCl in order of ~10-20 g have been used to purge out an existing infection. This is due to supraphysiological levels of Cl- ions which somehow the pathogens can't withstand (neutrophil mediated action most likely ). This method was also supposedly used in the 1930s

 

[Helen]

I recommended HCL for diabetes. and \I fixed couple of cases of pseudo diabetes with HCL. Those cases had super low potassium in blood. and thus insulin secretion was stopped. since insulin is what puts potassium back into the cell. If you have high potassium in the blood, then you have acidosis.

 

[Helen]

Gbol thread on RPF someone had great results taking high amounts like 2-5 grams or something.

Yeah ,it was tarmander ,he has type 1 diabetes ,he used betaine HCl and reported blood sugar lowering effects. In a recent post i remember him saying that he got dopaminergic effects ( like desire to learn new things etc) from it. Just be careful with possible low blood sugar if you are going to try it in gram dosages

.

If you are going to take betaine HCl do NOT do it on an empty stomach. The salad is fine to do on an empty stomach, very good first thing in the morning for overall digestion. The greens provide a buffer for the acidity. HCl is different, always needs to be taken with meals (just prior to a meal), it's much more potent and has no intrinsic buffer.

Dosage of HCl is titrated to the highest amount you can tolerate without feeling any burning sensation. So you start low and experiment upwards slowly with each meal. If you feel any burning, you take a bit of sodium bicarb in water to neutralize the acid, and then you stick to a dose that's just below what caused the burning in future meals. Many people end up going to doses higher than 2g for a while and then titrate back down as things improve.

Mattyb , there was a guy on rpf by the nick of tyw,in his clinical experience ,he said that high doses of betaine HCl in order of ~10-20 g have been used to purge out an existing infection. This is due to supraphysiological levels of Cl- ions which somehow the pathogens can't withstand (neutrophil mediated action most likely ). This method was also supposedly used in the 1930s

HCL will grow fungus like you read about. HCL is good only for bacteria , not because of chloride , but because it acidifies the PH and bacteria wont live in acidic PH, Virus will though, and fungus will

 

[dante]

HCL will grow fungus like you read about. HCL is good only for bacteria , not because of chloride , but because it acidifies the PH and bacteria wont live in acidic PH, Virus will though, and fungus will

From Wikipedia ,https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myeloperoxidase . This is a heme dependent neutrophilic enzyme.

"MPO is a member of the XPO subfamily of peroxidases and produces hypochlorous acid (HOCl) from hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) and chloride anion (Cl−) (or the equivalent from a non-chlorine halide) during the neutrophil's respiratory burst."
"Hypochlorous acid and tyrosyl radical are cytotoxic, so they are used by the neutrophil to kill bacteria and other pathogens"

Though you might be right on it's bacterial exclusivity though

 

[mattyb]

there could be too cases here as I said before. If he has high potassium in the blood. and low insulin. means zinc deficiency is likely. since zinc is what will make insulin. If he had low insulin and low potassium, that is understandable.

If potassium is low in the cell, usually you have high progesterone. If potassium is high low progesterone. or you can have simply low progesterone on its own since zinc is deficient and body cant make insulin. and this stops from producing progesterone, since progesterone will require sugar in the cell, but if there is no insulin , then no sugar.

He needs more tests to see exactly what is going on. But he can try things and see.


HCL usually not used for volume alklalosis, magnesium plus potassium are used here. But the problem is aldosterone receptors are effected by a progestin and potassium will only temporarily fix the problem

Acute treatment with potassium wouldn't reverse effect on aldosterone receptors, that's why you aren't recommending it. Okay, that makes sense.

 

[mattyb]

Mattyb , there was a guy on rpf by the nick of tyw,in his clinical experience ,he said that high doses of betaine HCl in order of ~10-20 g have been used to purge out an existing infection. This is due to supraphysiological levels of Cl- ions which somehow the pathogens can't withstand (neutrophil mediated action most likely ). This method was also supposedly used in the 1930s

I could see that working for bacterial infections and most fungal infections, not because of Cl- though, but because of the acidification (H+).

I disagree with Gbolduev about fungal infections. Everything I've read is that common fungal infections are much more likely to alkalize their environment in order to inhibit fungal proteases that function best in low pH environments and because they proliferate more in alkaline environments. Fungi have special mechanisms for producing excess ammonia, which raises pH.

See:
http://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1006149
http://mbio.asm.org/content/2/3/e00055-11.full

It would make most viral infections much worse, unless the acidification was super intense (but then you are risk of damaging the host, so that would be stupid). Viral infections love low pH, bacteria and fungus love high pH. Again, these are general trends and there are always exceptions.

 

[TubZy]

Gbol thread on RPF someone had great results taking high amounts like 2-5 grams or something.

Yeah ,it was tarmander ,he has type 1 diabetes ,he used betaine HCl and reported blood sugar lowering effects. In a recent post i remember him saying that he got dopaminergic effects ( like desire to learn new things etc) from it. Just be careful with possible low blood sugar if you are going to try it in gram dosages

.

If you are going to take betaine HCl do NOT do it on an empty stomach. The salad is fine to do on an empty stomach, very good first thing in the morning for overall digestion. The greens provide a buffer for the acidity. HCl is different, always needs to be taken with meals (just prior to a meal), it's much more potent and has no intrinsic buffer.

Dosage of HCl is titrated to the highest amount you can tolerate without feeling any burning sensation. So you start low and experiment upwards slowly with each meal. If you feel any burning, you take a bit of sodium bicarb in water to neutralize the acid, and then you stick to a dose that's just below what caused the burning in future meals. Many people end up going to doses higher than 2g for a while and then titrate back down as things improve.

Mattyb , there was a guy on rpf by the nick of tyw,in his clinical experience ,he said that high doses of betaine HCl in order of ~10-20 g have been used to purge out an existing infection. This is due to supraphysiological levels of Cl- ions which somehow the pathogens can't withstand (neutrophil mediated action most likely ). This method was also supposedly used in the 1930s

Yeah TYW said the same thing to me a while back over PM too, let me see if I have the exact quote.

He said was registering here so hope he can expand on it as well as I'm pretty interested too...

 

[Namelk]

Could someone tell me if I start taking zinc on the first day that I decrease the clomid to 50 mg or in the second week taking 50 mg of clomid? one post says to take when you start to decrease the clomid and another says to start 2 weeks after starting the protocol, so I have that doubt now.

[mention]gbolduev[/mention]