ZINC FINGER THEORY DISCUSSION for PFS - 2 cases

[Helen]

i honestly didn't think 5htp did anything significant, I just wanted time release melatonin and it happened to have 5htp, unbeknownst to me. it nearly gave me a damn anxiety attack, I hear it causes issues with those on ssri's- sometimes fatal. any dots that can be connected from such a bad reaction so quickly? would low serotonin explain this / my premature e? I had absolutely no clue what 5htp even did.

Read Health protocol. you cant take melatonin or 5 htp. I wrote extensively about it . In alkalotic state serotonin is low and melatonin is low, and cant be raised with supplements.

When you raise your potassium and chloride, this will make glycine work. this will increase serotonin production and at teh same time increase its conversion into melatonin.
In any case, I explained it in Health protocol thread.

 

[Rid]

Read Health protocol. you cant take melatonin or 5 htp. I wrote extensively about it . In alkalotic state serotonin is low and melatonin is low, and cant be raised with supplements.

When you raise your potassium and chloride, this will make glycine work. this will increase serotonin production and at teh same time increase its conversion into melatonin.
In any case, I explained it in Health protocol thread.

damn, missed that. So, I've always had pretty messed up sleep schedule and I've found it impossible to sleep before 6am lately. any suggestion for a reset? going the old fashion, sleep deprived for 2 weeks route takes a lot out of me so I haven't been able to do it lately.

 

[barbaar]

i honestly didn't think 5htp did anything significant, I just wanted time release melatonin and it happened to have 5htp, unbeknownst to me. it nearly gave me a damn anxiety attack, I hear it causes issues with those on ssri's- sometimes fatal. any dots that can be connected from such a bad reaction so quickly? would low serotonin explain this / my premature e? I had absolutely no clue what 5htp even did.

I had the same reaction to 5htp when I tried it after getting PSSD. Anxiety spike and a very uncomfortable feeling. Haven't touched it since.

 

[Helen]

I had the same reaction to 5htp when I tried it after getting PSSD. Anxiety spike and a very uncomfortable feeling. Haven't touched it since.

Read health protocol

 

[barbaar]

Read health protocol

Mind = blown. You da man gbol!

Do you think the theories from early on about PSSD being the body getting stuck in a high serotonin state are wrong? Or is that what happens initially until the body just can't keep up with the required production anymore.

 

[Helen]

Mind = blown. You da man gbol!

Do you think the theories from early on about PSSD being the body getting stuck in a high serotonin state are wrong? Or is that what happens initially until the body just can't keep up with the required production anymore.

pre PSSD body had already low serotonin , this was because body had low potassium. Now you give SSRI, you raise serotonin you fix the problem with low serotonin but you make worse the problem with low potassium. So now you quit the drug. And now you have lower potassium than before the drug, so your serotonin does not work at all now.

This is what PSSD is.

Bottom line low potassium = low serotonin. Low serotonin is a regulation. You cant give SSRI)) you have to give magnesium and potassium chloride or zinc.

But idiots doctors give SSRI , SSRI raises cortisol and this cortisol lowers already low potassium even lower. Now the person with super low potassium crashes right on the drug, A person with ok potassium crashes after he quits the drug from even lower serotonin symptoms.

 

[barbaar]

pre PSSD body had already low serotonin , this was because body had low potassium. Now you give SSRI, you raise serotonin you fix the problem with low serotonin but you make worse the problem with low potassium. So now you quit the drug. And now you have lower potassium than before the drug, so your serotonin does not work at all now.

This is what PSSD is.

Bottom line low potassium = low serotonin. Low serotonin is a regulation. You cant give SSRI)) you have to give magnesium and potassium chloride or zinc.

But idiots doctors give SSRI , SSRI raises cortisol and this cortisol lowers already low potassium even lower. Now the person with super low potassium crashes right on the drug, A person with ok potassium crashes after he quits the drug.

That makes sense, thanks.

 

[wuf]

pre PSSD body had already low serotonin , this was because body had low potassium. Now you give SSRI, you raise serotonin you fix the problem with low serotonin but you make worse the problem with low potassium. So now you quit the drug. And now you have lower potassium than before the drug, so your serotonin does not work at all now.
This is what PSSD is.
Bottom line low potassium = low serotonin. Low serotonin is a regulation. You cant give SSRI)) you have to give magnesium and potassium chloride or zinc.
But idiots doctors give SSRI , SSRI raises cortisol and this cortisol lowers already low potassium even lower. Now the person with super low potassium crashes right on the drug, A person with ok potassium crashes after he quits the drug from even lower serotonin symptoms.

Basically potassium is a critical component in all we are talking about..PFS, PSSD etc...

 

[Ghost]

SERT is significantly decreased during chronic SSRI treatment (on the order of 80-90%). This is what most doctors won't tell you. YES, it's a Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor, but that's not the full story becuase it is also decreasing SERT instead of just blocking its action. This is from Progesterone - indirectly. Progesterone blocks Estradiol's protective effects on SERT in the POA. This area is critical for sexual function. This is why Estradiol treatments work for PSSD for a while, and how high T boosts also help because of aromatization. This is well known stuff. Seen in sex reassignments for decades.

Effects of chronic antidepressant treatments on serotonin transporter function, density, and mRNA level. - PubMed - NCBI

It also has nothing to do with mRNA expression of SERT (From SSRI Treatment), but rather appears to be internalization of the receptors, or a block from them making it to the synapse. This coincides with the info above. Estradiol PROTECTS SERT.

The Serotonin Hypothesis for Anxiety and Depression is woefully outdated, and some doctors are even starting to admit that.

I'm quite confident that Serotonin remains high in PSSD cases. This leads to ROS formation and scarring in the penis. It also explains why most people don't return to the level of anxiety or depression that they had before the drug. If Serotonin was the cause of the mental illness, having it not work after the SSRI would make the mental illness worse. That's not what we see at all. Additionally, Serotonin inhibits Dopaminergic transmission. With an abundance of 5HT, dopamine is inhibited. This is why Dopamine agonists work temporarily for PSSD - especially in cases of low libido/anhedonia.

The Mechanisms of Post-SSRI Sexual Dysfunction (PSSD) (Ghost 2016)

 

[Helen]

SERT is significantly decreased during chronic SSRI treatment (on the order of 80-90%). This is what most doctors won't tell you. YES, it's a Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor, but that's not the full story becuase it is also decreasing SERT instead of just blocking its action. This is from Progesterone - indirectly. Progesterone blocks Estradiol's protective effects on SERT in the POA. This area is critical for sexual function. This is why Estradiol treatments work for PSSD for a while, and how high T boosts also help because of aromatization. This is well known stuff. Seen in sex reassignments for decades.

Effects of chronic antidepressant treatments on serotonin transporter function, density, and mRNA level. - PubMed - NCBI

It also has nothing to do with mRNA expression of SERT (From SSRI Treatment), but rather appears to be internalization of the receptors, or a block from them making it to the synapse. This coincides with the info above. Estradiol PROTECTS SERT.

The Serotonin Hypothesis for Anxiety and Depression is woefully outdated, and some doctors are even starting to admit that.

I'm quite confident that Serotonin remains high in PSSD cases. This leads to ROS formation and scarring in the penis. It also explains why most people don't return to the level of anxiety or depression that they had before the drug. If Serotonin was the cause of the mental illness, having it not work after the SSRI would make the mental illness worse. That's not what we see at all. Additionally, Serotonin inhibits Dopaminergic transmission. With an abundance of 5HT, dopamine is inhibited. This is why Dopamine agonists work temporarily for PSSD - especially in cases of low libido/anhedonia.

The Mechanisms of Post-SSRI Sexual Dysfunction (PSSD) (Ghost 2016)

Ghost. Give me one person with PSSD into my skype. He will need to have a hairtest done. I

from what I saw this is alkalosis with volume contraction, this is why dopamine agonists work for PSSD. since the conversion to adrenaline is too high . Estrogen also raises sodium, but without potassium and chloride it will never hold. copper will go up only when there is potassium. you cant bypass it and give estrogen which is copper. and hope that it will work.
Basically , if you give electrolytes and get rid of alkalosis

1) lower conversion of dopamine into adrenaline pathway since sodium is retained and with retained sodium you dont need as much adrenaline. This slows down conversion of dopamine into adrenaline.
2) lower progesterone
3) increase estradiol which raises sodium.

all 3 things that work for PSSD.

I bet that for PSSD people , it will be sodium chloride, hcl, potassium chloride , magnesium chloride, plus aminos. also could try to add manganese or copper.

 

[Aleksandr]

Ghost. Give me one person with PSSD into my skype. He will need to have a hairtest done. I

from what I saw this is alkalosis with volume contraction, this is why dopamine agonists work for PSSD. since the conversion to adrenaline is too high . Estrogen also raises sodium, but without potassium and chloride it will never hold. copper will go up only when there is potassium. you cant bypass it and give estrogen which is copper. and hope that it will work.
Basically , if you give electrolytes and get rid of alkalosis

1) lower conversion of dopamine into adrenaline pathway since sodium is retained and with retained sodium you dont need as much adrenaline. This slows down conversion of dopamine into adrenaline.
2) lower progesterone
3) increase estradiol which raises sodium.

all 3 things that work for PSSD.

I bet that for PSSD people , it will be sodium chloride, hcl, potassium chloride , magnesium chloride, plus aminos. also could try to add manganese or copper.

Gbold, is the health protocol thread a protocol for just those stuck in alkalosis (e.g. pfs) with high sodium and potassium?

So it won't help slow oxidisers?

 

[jacknap]

whoa there buddy, firstly, I'm not recovered, I'm simply making consistent progress. it's still way too early too tell. secondly, everything I've done is here ON THIS VERY WEBSITE.

it's no wonder gbold has nearly given up on these forums, the cure is said so many times but people still can't get it through their heads lol. please be smart guys and learn to read and interpret what is right in front of your face. I know it's hard when you're in hell, but you have to keep pushing. you will not recover if you expect recovery to be spoon fed to you. I've spent hundreds on top of hundreds of hours researching, interpreting and connecting things that have lead me here. gbold is putting it together, and I will put together what has worked for me, but I'm still hesitant as just last night I had a bad reaction to 5htp that was in my sleeping aid, but I seem to be bouncing back quickly.

why not just use melatonin straight? i use it on/off and only helps. 3mg

 

[K8668B]

damn, missed that. So, I've always had pretty messed up sleep schedule and I've found it impossible to sleep before 6am lately. any suggestion for a reset? going the old fashion, sleep deprived for 2 weeks route takes a lot out of me so I haven't been able to do it lately.

as far as messed up sleep schedules, and sleep disorders, i had them all! sleep is the one aspect i have conquered and healed. im actually going to bed right now, and i do to all the things i do during the day, i dont get to get online as much as i would like. send me a pm. ill answer it sometime tomorrow.

 

[Steve]

pre PSSD body had already low serotonin , this was because body had low potassium. Now you give SSRI, you raise serotonin you fix the problem with low serotonin but you make worse the problem with low potassium. So now you quit the drug. And now you have lower potassium than before the drug, so your serotonin does not work at all now.

This is what PSSD is.

Bottom line low potassium = low serotonin. Low serotonin is a regulation. You cant give SSRI)) you have to give magnesium and potassium chloride or zinc.

But idiots doctors give SSRI , SSRI raises cortisol and this cortisol lowers already low potassium even lower. Now the person with super low potassium crashes right on the drug, A person with ok potassium crashes after he quits the drug from even lower serotonin symptoms.

Can 5-htp give you pssd?

 

[Rid]

why not just use melatonin straight? i use it on/off and only helps. 3mg

I usually do, but I opted for a time release melatonin, and it just happened to have 5htp.

by the way, you will actually benefit much more from taking very low doses of melatonin- seriously, try about .3mg, it will do a lot more than anything higher will. they just give you that much as an advertising ploy.

as far as messed up sleep schedules, and sleep disorders, i had them all! sleep is the one aspect i have conquered and healed. im actually going to bed right now, and i do to all the things i do during the day, i dont get to get online as much as i would like. send me a pm. ill answer it sometime tomorrow.

yeah my body always seems to go back to crazy hours into the night, but everyone in my family is this way. must be genetic in part, I don't really mind as I usually wake up feeling rested, but I know my circadian rhythm is fucked. Just discovered that fasting actually will naturally reset your internal clock (along with blocking blue light at night, get your blue blocking glasses for better sleep peeps!)

 

[Ghost]

People get something very similar PSSD from taking 5HTP alone, so you're wise to steer clear in the future.

 

[Helen]

why not just use melatonin straight? i use it on/off and only helps. 3mg

NEVER use melatonin . Read health protocol. Everything is explained there. You are doing yourself harm.

 

[Helen]

I usually do, but I opted for a time release melatonin, and it just happened to have 5htp.

by the way, you will actually benefit much more from taking very low doses of melatonin- seriously, try about .3mg, it will do a lot more than anything higher will. they just give you that much as an advertising ploy.




yeah my body always seems to go back to crazy hours into the night, but everyone in my family is this way. must be genetic in part, I don't really mind as I usually wake up feeling rested, but I know my circadian rhythm is fucked. Just discovered that fasting actually will naturally reset your internal clock (along with blocking blue light at night, get your blue blocking glasses for better sleep peeps!)

. Never use 5 htp, never use melatonin. You need to increase body conversion of serotonin to melatonin. By taking melatonin you decrease this conversion.

Follow the program @TubZy You see what's going on.

 

[Helen]

Can 5-htp give you pssd?

NEVER use it.

 

[raven]

@gbolduev Ive been told that my bloods show signs of acidosis, will the general wellbeing protocol still benefit me? (PSSD)